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 Post subject: Boycott Honor/Infamy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:20 am
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It was fun, for a bit.

Now people are turning it into high drama, with all manner of hurt feelings and spam in General.

There's a solution: opt out. It has no effect on gameplay. It's a popularity contest.

If enough people decide to ignore it, it may eventually go away.

Who's with me?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:02 pm
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It is what you make of it. I personally enjoy it. I don't want to see it go away. Perhaps there are some who are acting childish about it, but your suggestion is a childish solution.

See also: Factions and Influence

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:20 pm 

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People are constantly begging for Honor/Infamy in General, and getting upset when they don't get the rating they want. If we simply start ignoring the entire meta-game, there won't be so much in it for them anymore. Childish? No, simple logic of supply/demand.

Goes right along with "Don't feed the trolls."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:25 pm 

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There are different ways to show your disapproval of honor and infamy. Ignoring it will only make it go away if everyone ignores which isn't going to happen.
Tell people if they don't shut you will simply vote for them in the opposite way that they want you to vote for them. That should get them to shut for a while.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:25 pm
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Just vote for the person the way their aiming if they've been helpful, and the other way if they haven't. Just because someone begs, doesn't mean you have to comply.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:52 pm 

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That's what I am talking about: if you don't vote "their way", people feel hurt and angry.

Honor/Infamy adds NOTHING useful to Skyrates. We don't need a popularity contest, those never end well. We have plenty of ways to rank people by skill and dedication.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:53 pm
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Gosh, won't it be nice with the /ignore works again?

If someone begs me for an honor or infamy vote then you can rest assured that they will definitely not be getting either. I give my votes to players who have earned them one way or the other.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:30 pm 
Sapphire Luminary

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"Karma" systems are pretty common in forums apparently-seems to me to just be a way to thank someone for being nice/answering a question/making a funny joke. One problem that arises is yes, the "wrong" point, but the situation of people begging openly for X and then getting Y and whining doesn't seem to really exist, from what I've seen. 99% of those exchanges go "who wants X?" "Me!" "K" "Thanks!" the only "wrong" points I've seen is for answering questions in help-most people default to "honor," which makes sense. Then again, I've heard one whole person mention their rank is lower than they wanted because they're so helpful people honor them too much XD. But that wasn't even really complaining.

Certain people feel they're getting greifed, one way or the other, and it apparently does happen (look at Captain mullet with crazy high votes, but on neither board) but I really find the "who wants X points!" exchanges harmless fun. Someone wants to make someone happy, they do, they're both happy. I can't honestly find much wrong with that.

On the topic of boycot tho-maybe an opt-out button? Some people REALLY want to be neutral, and are like "ohh no!" when someone rates them to be nice, because they want a score of 0 xD. They and the people that just don't care/want to bother could opt out?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:25 am
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Location: Kenai, Alaska... wait... *checks the gps*... Chicago?
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I saw we change them to cookies and brownies (or etc) if we touch anything about them. That way "Hey! I want a cookie!" gives cookie "Yay! Here, have a brownie!" gives brownie "Yay!" its basically the same thing, just slightly less annoying, and slightly less something to be proud of.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:53 pm
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Manik wrote:
I saw we change them to cookies and brownies (or etc) if we touch anything about them. That way "Hey! I want a cookie!" gives cookie "Yay! Here, have a brownie!" gives brownie "Yay!" its basically the same thing, just slightly less annoying, and slightly less something to be proud of.

Yeah, except we all know what brownies represent.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:53 pm 
Sapphire Luminary

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Fenriq wrote:
Manik wrote:
I saw we change them to cookies and brownies (or etc) if we touch anything about them. That way "Hey! I want a cookie!" gives cookie "Yay! Here, have a brownie!" gives brownie "Yay!" its basically the same thing, just slightly less annoying, and slightly less something to be proud of.

Yeah, except we all know what brownies represent.....


PIRATES. :remygrin: And we can't have that. Vote cookie! er, what's the topic? :worry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:00 pm 
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my main 'honor inf is meh' comes from the fact that I feel that the top 10 feels like a lot of vote grubbing, vs people who acutally deserve infamy or honor (remy/calvin, phil. Whos this bob guy? why is he infamous?)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:25 am
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I actually chose cookies and brownies because some people like cookies, some brownies, some both, and they wouldn't be negatives. You could have 300 cookies, and 297 brownies, instead of 3 cookies. See what I'm getting at?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:53 pm
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Manik wrote:
I actually chose cookies and brownies because some people like cookies, some brownies, some both, and they wouldn't be negatives. You could have 300 cookies, and 297 brownies, instead of 3 cookies. See what I'm getting at?

Yeah, its called adult onset diabetes.

I'd rather have apples and oranges. Or maybe coconuts and pineapples. Mmmm, fruit salad.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:50 am
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Nuff said.

The ratings thing is only good for lulz, as I ended up surpassing Mullet in infamy! :remygrin:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:00 am 
Flight Master

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
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Talvin wrote:
Honor/Infamy adds NOTHING useful to Skyrates.


I would say this is true, in the same way that the influence game adds nothing useful to Skyrates.

Really, Honor/Infamy have added just a small method of player interaction with one another. No, it's not PVP, but like /ignore and friend lists, it has its uses.

Kitteh wrote:
On the topic of boycot tho-maybe an opt-out button? Some people REALLY want to be neutral, and are like "ohh no!" when someone rates them to be nice, because they want a score of 0 xD. They and the people that just don't care/want to bother could opt out?


Our feelings on this are complicated, and I'm curious how many people this actually effects. People who at once don't care and yet do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:34 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:20 am
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Gilbert,

I cannot agree with your analogy. Influence requires that you get out and work. It requires that you fly missions, shoot down lots of pirates, criss-cross the map. It is a measure of accomplishment.

Honor and Infamy don't require that you even take off. You don't have to play the actual game at all to earn these things. It is based primarily on what happens in the chat.

If it were based on what happens in RP tab, I could even see it. From what I have seen, though, it's just a junior high popularity contest.

As for "opting out", I am not asking to be set neutral. That would be just a third stance in the Honor/Infamy game. Some people already play that way: they ask for Honor/Infamy points to balance things out in an attempt to remain perfectly neutral.

I am simply refusing to play the H/I/N game AT ALL, because it has become such a disruptive force within the Skyrates community without any added value to offset that. Knowing that there are others who feel likewise, I am calling on them to join me in this publicly in an attempt to persuade you, the devs, that you have made a big mistake with this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:47 am 

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Let me try this a different way:

Skyrates already had name-calling.

Why add a coded mechanic for it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:48 am 
Flight Master

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Talvin wrote:
I cannot agree with your analogy. Influence requires that you get out and work. It requires that you fly missions, shoot down lots of pirates, criss-cross the map. It is a measure of accomplishment.


Annnnd, let's be clear, does nothing. Influence does nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's a mostly socially constructed game. Sure, you earn influence points via doing in-game things, but the 'Influence Game' as a whole is 'useless.'

Quote:
Honor and Infamy don't require that you even take off. You don't have to play the actual game at all to earn these things. It is based primarily on what happens in the chat.


What is the 'actual game' though? Currently, it's a few game mechanics along with socially created games.

Quote:
I am simply refusing to play the H/I/N game AT ALL, because it has become such a disruptive force within the Skyrates community without any added value to offset that. Knowing that there are others who feel likewise, I am calling on them to join me in this publicly in an attempt to persuade you, the devs, that you have made a big mistake with this.


You are welcome to that line of thinking. I wish you the best of luck on your crusade. So far, we don't find ourselves convinced.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:52 am 
Flight Master

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Talvin wrote:
Let me try this a different way:

Skyrates already had name-calling.

Why add a coded mechanic for it?


Your question is a leading one, operating on the basis that Sky-rating's purpose is for name-calling.

It's clear you have some very strong opinions about the system, and as such I'm not sure I can particularly talk you otherwise.

Your impressions will be added into our own analysis of the system.


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