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 Post subject: Best Planes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:53 pm 

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I've been looking at all the different kinds of planes and I was wondering what kind of plane would be good for someone that does a bit of trading AND combat?


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:44 pm 

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Performance planes tend to be best for people who do both combat and trade, especially if you are fairly offensive in combat. Trade planes are quite a bit more durable, though, and often have more firepower. It just depends on the way you fight battles. If you like to chase after the enemy, go with a performance plane. If you don't mind letting the enemy come to you, go with a trade plane.

When it comes to trading, trade planes will be able to move quite a bit more cargo at a slower rate. They usually make more profit, but they aren't as adaptable to quick changes in the market. Additionally, once you get to the upper tier trade planes, you'll probably need to start carrying multiple goods, as too much of a single good, especially luxuries, tends to dilute your profit (the average price will be higher when buying, and lower when selling, since you'll have more goods).


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:21 pm 

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i disagree entirely. trade planes always have more CPKH for the same tier vs performance planes. they also tend to get heavier loadouts starting T3. starting T3 they also get armor class which goes up every level which is invaluable for staying alive. no matter how good you are when you get into higher tier combats say.. level 50 or so and there are swarms of 15+ planes....armor class is what saves your bacon every time as enough of it will negate ALL machine guns entirely (other than crits) and yes... its possible to do that in a t3 halifax. just highly not recommended. performance planes suffer from high stall (when you are overshooting enemies you want to stay behind at minimum speed their front guns get to shoot YOU), low armor, low armor class.

my experience with trade planes are as long as you put enough points in afterburner you can play chase. if you upgrade the wings you are very nearly as manuverable as a performance plane (without the huge turn radius), your stall speed is also low enough for you to STAY behind your enemies.

im currently en-route to pick up my T8 plane. but my T6 bullfrog has nearly as much manuverability as a T7 havoc does in base form. 4 vs 8. with any of the +3 manuver wings + improved wings (55k) you already match. plus you have points from your skill.

remember.. dead enemies dont shoot back. but in a trade plane with the heavier weapons, you have the choice wether to chase them or let them come to you. in a performance plane letting them come to you is a VERY bad idea. (oh and minefields are especially fun with performance planes because of the high stall)

im very much biased towards trade planes because how well they handle, are armored and have plenty of guns on them. that and i prefer to end combats with swarms of planes by sitting there pressing down the spacebar filling the swarms with large amounts of holes. no silly flying around in circles picking off tail feathers two at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:48 pm 

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Let me clarify a couple things. Yes, the Trade planes will always have a higher CKPH than the Performance plane of the same tier, but the Performance plane never has to worry about selling in batches or micromanaging multiple types of trading good. That combined with the much better adaptability to quickly get to a good trade makes it comparable to the higher CKPH of a Trade plane. The Trade plane will still end up on top most of the time, but Performance planes can usually hold their own.

In terms of combat, the Trade planes are much more durable. They have double or triple the armor of a performance plane and much more AC (performance planes don't have any). However, the performance planes almost all have low sil, which is very similar to high AC. In an Inger, for example, most shots won't even touch you. The exception are critical hits and those will hurt even if you have the maximum possible AC.

It really comes down to maneuverability and speed (being able to chase down the other pesky performance planes versus durability and flexibility (in terms of how you can attack). It's completely possible to survive high level combat in the T9 Performance and T9 Trade planes, so you really can't go wrong with either. As you go up the tiers, try out at least a couple Performance planes and Trade planes. I'd suggest the Loki (T4) or Havoc (T7) for Performance, as they are very similar to the final Performance plane, and the Kittyhawk (T2) or Bullfrog (T6) to get a feel for a Trade plane. You'll probably figure out which you enjoy more, as they have very different styles of play.

Also, just a note about Combat and Upgrade planes. They're completely valid options, and you should probably try a few of those along the way as well. The Seahawk or Dauntless in T5 are good examples of those.

Edit: One last plus I forgot to mention for Performance planes, their size (similar to the sil, but not quite the same). The fact that they're so small means that they are in an enemy's arc for much less time. This means less shots are fired against them, and there's less chance to get hit at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:49 pm 

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only time you need to worry about batch selling and multiple trade goods is when you deal almost exclusively in the last 4 items (unob, diamonds, nip, grog) anything else you would never need to do that. also, the amount you sell in batch is typically around 200 or so meaning only trade planes past T6 or so need to worry about it. to a new player those are more endgame concerns and much less valid in the first few tiers. also, ive found that my performance alt (flying only performance planes) requires cartography skills much earlier in the game which forces me to divert much needed flight points from other things to setup decent lengthed queues. plus early on, performance planes LACK most of the features required from performance planes: maneuver, speed, acceleration. (since higher level enemies will quickly outclass you in all 3 areas unless you stay within the starting skylands)


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:13 pm 

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I'm quite happy in my Seafire, thank you very much. Tier 7 "Upgrade" plane (heavily modified of course). A tad overpriced, but man, I've got 32m G-squigs sitting around and doing nothing. I can't even bring myself to upgrade to T8 or 9 because I don't like the gun placements.

Most of my planes have been Performance, though. I've not really gone wrong by them. In terms of sheer gameplay experience (I don't care enough to crunch numbers), I've found perf planes to be the most fun to play (apart from my beloved Seafire, of course).

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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:19 pm 
Moostro

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I also really enjoy the perf plane experience. I didn't like the Marauder much, but once I hit the Requin, I've been quite happy, and I'm in heaven in the Mantis. I haven't spent much time exploring the other styles yet, however, so this is not necessarily a well balanced preference, but I enjoy the perf combat style so much that there's been no reason to change up yet. The trade is quite reasonable, it doesn't have quite the pure TP burn of my trade alt, but I make so much more money from the manual combats at this point that it doesn't much matter. And I pull enough TP to keep the TP progression flowing.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:59 pm 

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I've been a performance plane pilot for a while now and have found them to be great planes in combat and that their high stall though high can be lowered easier then other planes since most upgrades lower things by percents. Traders do out trade generally, but in the mid tiers I've found that what a performance plane loses in trade ability (however little that is) it generally makes up in combat, provided that style of combat is your cup of tea.

In the first two tiers I've always found performance lacking but this isn't always the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:35 pm 

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problem is even if you drop the stall by huge amounts and have loads of maneuver, perf planes handle like bricks at stall speed. the problem isnt JUST the stall speed, its the stall speed's difference from the cornering velocity that makes them handle badly.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:14 pm 

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In my Inger, I can drop in behind and stay behind anything that requires more than one shot to kill. Yes, my plane handles sluggishly at those speeds... but that sluggishness is relative to the insane turns that I make normally with 22 maneuver, proper use of short bursts of speed and gumption burning turns can easily allow me to turn inside anything that I need to for as long as necessary to kill them from behind.

The main drawback as far as I can see in piloting an inger is the risks of crits occaisonally spoiling your combats. I can complete most lvl 60-70 combats with almost no armor loss if I'm careful, but a few crits and suddenly its another story.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Althea wrote:
I've been looking at all the different kinds of planes and I was wondering what kind of plane would be good for someone that does a bit of trading AND combat?
It is, perhaps, a good sign that this has sparked such impassioned debate; there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

This round, I've flown a CR-4P, Thor, Halifax, Loki, Mantis, Havoc, Nova and a Kingfisher (in that order). I do mostly Trading/Influence Running, with occasional Combat on the side. I've enjoyed the KF the most.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:25 am 

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FlyiingWalrus wrote:
only time you need to worry about batch selling and multiple trade goods is when you deal almost exclusively in the last 4 items (unob, diamonds, nip, grog) anything else you would never need to do that. also, the amount you sell in batch is typically around 200 or so meaning only trade planes past T6 or so need to worry about it.


What is it about those four trade items that makes you only able to move 200 of them at once? And the T5 Barracuda I got just before the reset could move up to 300 of something at once so even though I wasn't trade licensed for that stuff I theoretically could have if I'd kept my T5 till I did.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Moving more then 200 or so of the luxury items (nip, diamonds, unnop) is a good way to flood the market, dropping your sell price off a cliff (or when buying, creating a short term scarcity, raising your buy price higher then you could ever sell profitably) as the skyland needs time (typically 30 mins) to consume/produce the good.

The higher the license you need to trade a good, the more prone to this it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:27 pm 
Incarnation of Rock

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To be more exact, each good has an invisible "supply" between 0 and some max number, and can never go above or below that. When it's at maximum, you buy and sell it for the cheapest price, when it's at zero you buy and sell at the highest price. Each time you buy or sell one crate (even if you're doing it in bulk) it subtracts/adds to the supply and changes the price of the next crate. The higher up the good is on the trade wheel (starting clockwise from wood) the lower that "maximum" supply is. So when you buy 200 unob at the cheapest, you're dropping it from maximum to somewhere in the middle. When you buy 200 wood at the cheapest, you're not even moving it 0.01%. As Pen said, every 30 minutes or so it refreshes the stock by either consuming some supplies (reducing the amount) or producing supplies (adding to it). The reason this only really applies to the higher tier goods is that the maximum values for everything else are ridiculously high to accommodate the hundreds of players in low tier planes all buying that same good at once.

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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:22 pm 

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KarHallarn wrote:
As Pen said, every 30 minutes or so it refreshes the stock by either consuming some supplies (reducing the amount) or producing supplies (adding to it).


What determines whether the skyland produces or consumes the good? Is it tailored for each skyland, or is it more determined by how high its flight license level is? I would imagine that the artificial skylands (like the Alphas) would consume raw materials like wood and food and turn them into refined materials like paper and grog, while the skylands with actual land would mainly work the other way around.
Sorry for derailing the original thread; if I have any more to ask on the subject I'll make a new one.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Planes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:23 pm 
Incarnation of Rock

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Stiev Banta wrote:
What determines whether the skyland produces or consumes the good? Is it tailored for each skyland, or is it more determined by how high its flight license level is? I would imagine that the artificial skylands (like the Alphas) would consume raw materials like wood and food and turn them into refined materials like paper and grog, while the skylands with actual land would mainly work the other way around.
Sorry for derailing the original thread; if I have any more to ask on the subject I'll make a new one.

Changes to the existing producers/consumers are random/dev controlled, and the original layout is somewhat determined by what they are. Tortuga (the pirate capitol) is always consuming grog, for instance. I think there's only a few examples like that though. For the most part it's less flavor determined and more mechanically determined, so that as you get more skylands and more goods you should get better trades, but you (usually) won't find a good trade of a higher level good on just the starter skylands.

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