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 Post subject: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:03 am 
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As stated here, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9777 some of us are thinking of trying to get our own game up.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E7F ... t?hl=en_US

Here is my (with some other peoples ideas) google docs rough draft of how the process will work. Feel free to chime in with any thoughts/ideas/and especially offers of help!

I also am starting up a email list.. if you are interested in this project at all, feel free to email me. (email is in profile) I promise not to spam :)

So.. here we go. No idea on how long this will take or where it will end up, but the ball is starting rolling.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:45 am 
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I suggest we ask for Devs' okay-go, first.
If they support this, that will make things loads less shady-- and prevent potential complications from copyright issues.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:44 pm 
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I am... disinclined to ask for approval. They know what is going on.

However, I do thinking avoiding taking IP is important, myself. No Inger/swordfish II would be ideal. We don't want to steal from Skyrates/Skies of Arcadia/Tailspin. We do, however, want something that resembles what we all love. I do not foresee a difficulty in avoiding stealing IP.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:35 pm 

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So long as I can fly a twin engined Wraith decked out in black and white filled with Sippenbrau... Oh wait.

I'm in, Ellington. Not sure how much or even how but I'd like to be a part of it. I'll start my subconscious on a name and go from there.

Ellington wrote:
I do not foresee a difficulty in avoiding stealing IP.

All art is derivative anyway. All everything is derivative really.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:19 pm 

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Quote:
All art is derivative anyway. All everything is derivative really.

and should the feces ever come in contact with the propeller, courts will just LOVE this statement :remygross:

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:46 am 
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Bonne chance!


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:24 am 
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If you'd like one piece of advice, take this:

Once you find a programming team, have them review your timetable. Programmers generally have a good sense of which programming tasks will be quick and which will be slow.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:33 am 
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Eskay wrote:
Programmers generally have a good sense of which programming tasks will be quick and which will be slow.
Yes. And then multiply all estimates by 3 to account for their inherent optimism.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:32 am 
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First brainstorming meeting: Sunday the 4th, 2pm eastern time, IRC. irc://freenode/fauxrates I'll try to have the room up as early as possible. If you have trouble using IRC, chatzilla on Firefox seems very easy. I know its sudden, but phil set the meeting time :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:45 pm 

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And we're off


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:08 pm 

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I'm in grad school, but if we could include something about collecting data in the signing up for it, consider me on board! :P

But seriously, I'm decentish with Python and learning Java and eager to help. Anything I can do, I shall try. Someone email me, as I don't come by these fora often. uflinguistic@gmail.com

EDIT: Oooh oooh, for money, might I suggest microtransactions for in-game majiggers.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Microtransactions for in-game muggings?


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:34 am 
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Eskay wrote:
Microtransactions for in-game muggings?
No no. He means in-game mechanizations for micromugging transactions.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:39 pm 
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The meeting went well! I solidified several things in my mind.

Currently: Send me proposals for what you want to see in the setting! Sky islands? y/n? ww2 planes? jets?

I am leaning towards floating islands, w/o jets.

Fauxrates (name change pending) will be*:

Sporadic. (real time flights)
Top down, real time combat like we know and love.
Armor will likely regenerate at some speed. Ammo will re-load.
Likely to have a resource harvesting and crafting minigame
Likely to have exploration acheivements.
Trade! NO flat trade. Not going to happen. Yes on some sort of insurance.
Microtansaction, but hopefully not overdone.


We havent quite decided on factions or endgame yet.

Here we have a spreadsheet for your info, talents, etc:
http://goo.gl/Ms0Y5
Please sign up :)

*subject to real world demands/what gets coded.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Okay! As I've logged the whole of the meeting, I will now post it here:

Code:
[2011-09-04 00:01:49] |<-- Ellington has left freenode (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110803131630])
[2011-09-04 00:55:43] -->| matejcik (~matejcik@ip-89-176-1-157.net.upcbroadband.cz) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:11:14] -->| attie (47c3b7dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.195.183.220) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:12:10] -->| Keyo (~Keyo@c-67-183-9-99.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:12:50] <Keyo> Going to be offline for at least part of this meeting, but I'm assuming I can get a recap of the salient points from somebody at some point when I do get back in.
[2011-09-04 01:13:46] <matejcik> ...and if not, someone will provide a log
[2011-09-04 01:15:20] <Keyo> Presumably.
[2011-09-04 01:15:22] <Keyo> Who's Sponge?
[2011-09-04 01:17:48] <Sapheta> I'm logging the channel, so I'll upload it somewhere when the meeting's over. :)
[2011-09-04 01:17:57] <Sapheta> You know, for people that missed it and so on.
[2011-09-04 01:23:38] |<-- Keyo has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2011-09-04 01:27:53] |<-- Sponge has left freenode (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2011-09-04 01:28:50] -->| Sponge (~Heaven@r49-2-11-247.cpe.vividwireless.net.au) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:43:27] -->| Eskay (~Eskay@71-217-9-26.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:44:09] <Eskay> Hi all!
[2011-09-04 01:44:19] <Eskay> I think I'm early.
[2011-09-04 01:44:55] <Austin_J> By about 15 minutes
[2011-09-04 01:51:33] <matejcik> aaand the anticipation is building...
[2011-09-04 01:55:25] =-= attie is now known as Atomsk_
[2011-09-04 01:57:27] -->| Vincent_Cross (~chatzilla@ip68-104-132-101.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 01:58:15] <Vincent_Cross> Phew! Made it!
[2011-09-04 01:58:19] <Vincent_Cross> (I think)
[2011-09-04 01:58:28] <Sapheta> Yeah, hasn't started yet. ;)
[2011-09-04 01:59:07] <matejcik> nah, the meeting's already over. sorry Vincent
[2011-09-04 01:59:17] <Vincent_Cross> D:
[2011-09-04 01:59:23] <Vincent_Cross> *starts crying*
[2011-09-04 02:01:05] * matejcik runs off to fetch some snacks
[2011-09-04 02:01:38] * Vincent_Cross should probably see about brekkist...
[2011-09-04 02:08:46] -->| phillight (~plight@c-98-235-241-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:08:55] <Austin_J> Ah ha!
[2011-09-04 02:08:59] =-= phillight is now known as bailinphil
[2011-09-04 02:08:59] * matejcik erupts into a standing ovation
[2011-09-04 02:09:00] -->| Ellington (~chatzilla@c-98-201-95-232.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:09:09] <Ellington> hey guys! sorry i'm a bit late
[2011-09-04 02:09:14] <Austin_J> Greetings Phil! And Ellington.
[2011-09-04 02:09:18] <bailinphil> hi
[2011-09-04 02:09:23] <Talon> Looks like the crew's all here :
[2011-09-04 02:09:23] <Talon> :P
[2011-09-04 02:09:24] <TommyC_> Forgiven, and hi.
[2011-09-04 02:09:25] <Eskay> Heyo, phil and Ell!
[2011-09-04 02:09:31] =-= Mode #fauxrates +o bailinphil by ChanServ
[2011-09-04 02:09:34] =-= Mode #fauxrates -o Talon by ChanServ
[2011-09-04 02:10:07] <bailinphil> making me op is probably not especially helpful, i don't know how to use it
[2011-09-04 02:10:14] <bailinphil> but thanks :)
[2011-09-04 02:10:16] <Talon> just a sign, nothin' really special :P
[2011-09-04 02:10:29] <bailinphil> sure
[2011-09-04 02:10:31] <matejcik> in that case...
[2011-09-04 02:10:39] <Sapheta> Well then, voice could've been used. :P
[2011-09-04 02:10:49] <Ellington> well, lets get going!
[2011-09-04 02:11:01] <matejcik> this meeting is now in session.
[2011-09-04 02:11:11] <Sapheta> Again, logging for future reference! (and to post, most likely in-forum)
[2011-09-04 02:11:15] <Ellington> so.. welcome, everybody! thank you all very, very much for bein interested in the project
[2011-09-04 02:12:15] <Austin_J> So what's the first item on the agenda?
[2011-09-04 02:12:52] <Ellington> I've been finding out what roles everybody would like.... I have a lead coder and his right hand guy or girl. Burrito Loco is lead, and Matejcik there is second. I'ma trust them to ask for whatever coding help they need/other resources from me
[2011-09-04 02:13:25] <Ellington> Phil, of course, is awesome and valuable and might even know what we should be doing :D
[2011-09-04 02:14:22] <Ellington> I have a kickass art team, including the famous Tommy Chong. AJ there, part time skyrate Tod, and a few others are also great artists and going to help
[2011-09-04 02:14:23] <bailinphil> well, so far i'm just wishing you luck
[2011-09-04 02:14:54] <bailinphil> we'll see where/how i can fit in as things start to take shape
[2011-09-04 02:15:01] -->| Duxe (63812287@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.129.34.135) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:15:13] <Austin_J> I think right now we're just proud to have you as something of a mentor.
[2011-09-04 02:15:19] <Mahmoth> Indeed.
[2011-09-04 02:15:25] <Sapheta> (Oh good, that link worked. <_<)
[2011-09-04 02:15:43] <Duxe> Aye
[2011-09-04 02:16:24] <bailinphil> i'm not familiar with strictly distributed development, or any games made that way
[2011-09-04 02:16:27] <Vincent_Cross> I'm... not really sure what I can do, I'm mostly here out of interest and the hope that I might have some useful input.
[2011-09-04 02:16:44] <bailinphil> they must exist, but i don't know them personally
[2011-09-04 02:16:52] <Talon> Well
[2011-09-04 02:16:56] <Mahmoth> I'm here to see what I can do, as I've been put forward as Creative Person.
[2011-09-04 02:17:00] <bailinphil> making games is hard enough in person, already
[2011-09-04 02:17:03] <Talon> ^
[2011-09-04 02:17:07] <Ellington> I have some stuff to see what yall think about, like: WHat should we name the game? Should combat be the same stop down style? Do we want factions? is a little more sci-fi ok?
[2011-09-04 02:17:19] <Mahmoth> (Though I may have to bounce out as dinner is in about 20 minutes.)
[2011-09-04 02:17:23] <Sapheta> I'd really like to help with flavor text, for the record.
[2011-09-04 02:17:28] -->| ZhanaFox (5ac35448@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.195.84.72) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:17:36] <Duxe> Well hello there
[2011-09-04 02:17:45] <Ellington> What do we need to do to make it all kosher with different contributers, artists, coders, etc?
[2011-09-04 02:18:04] <Ellington> Do we want a land mass or just all skylands?
[2011-09-04 02:18:13] <Austin_J> How sci-fi is a little more sci-fi? I'd be happy to go as far as Skyrates In Space (even if it'd pretty much invalidate what little work Tommy and I have already done)
[2011-09-04 02:18:19] <Mahmoth> Name of the game should probably wait until we have a solid concept.
[2011-09-04 02:18:27] <bailinphil> honestly one of the things which hurt skyrates development when it entered "puberty" as i think of it is that there really wasn't a single Keeper Of The Vision
[2011-09-04 02:18:37] <Talon> Which is to say, there needs to be a keeper of the vision :p
[2011-09-04 02:18:40] <Vincent_Cross> Ooh, I'd actually like to help with the flavor text.
[2011-09-04 02:18:59] -->| NaesDraw (ad4f28ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.79.40.171) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:19:08] <bailinphil> "what is this game named and what is the fundamental design of combat" is probably not the kind of question that should be answered by the group as a whole
[2011-09-04 02:19:14] <Ellington> both of yall who mentioned that: Email me, please, so I can keep track of stuff: Jacenokelly @ gmail.com
[2011-09-04 02:19:29] <Sapheta> Will do, ell
[2011-09-04 02:19:36] <Vincent_Cross> Aye
[2011-09-04 02:19:36] <Eskay> I am not down with making lots of creative decisions right now.
[2011-09-04 02:19:52] <bailinphil> the need for consensus can kill something like this
[2011-09-04 02:20:02] <Talon> phil, actually, I was thinking that we could run some of the backend server implementation thoughts by you, since, you know, you're a coder
[2011-09-04 02:20:05] <Eskay> I _am_ down with trying to select a Visionary.
[2011-09-04 02:20:33] <bailinphil> sure i can help review server designs
[2011-09-04 02:20:50] <Ellington> I am ok with being leader. I am new to this sort of thing, and I dont want to run roughshod over anybody, but I do acknowledge the need for The FInal WOrd
[2011-09-04 02:21:11] <Talon> particularly, hearing from you with what worked and what didn't work with skyrates would be superhelpful as we move forward
[2011-09-04 02:21:26] * Ellington nods
[2011-09-04 02:21:42] <matejcik> bailinphil: care to step into #fauxrates-implementation then and talking codery with us? or should that wait until end of the general meeting?
[2011-09-04 02:22:23] <Ellington> end, ideally :)
[2011-09-04 02:22:26] <Duxe> If I may interject, what is 'The Vision' ?
[2011-09-04 02:22:52] <Austin_J> I'm wiht Duxe on that one. I've got stuff that might be "A Vision" but I don't know what we're quite talking about there.
[2011-09-04 02:23:00] <Talon> Ellington: aside from the coding aspects of it, I think that using this as grounds to brainstorm and ballpark ideas on the 'canon' is probably good
[2011-09-04 02:23:18] <Talon> I would say that the sky is probably the limit in what we're discussing, as long as everyone knows that those ideas may not make it into implementation
[2011-09-04 02:23:37] <Talon> And Ell, of course, gets to wield the mallet of the veto
[2011-09-04 02:23:37] <bailinphil> well, look, i saw the transcript from the earlier chat, though i don't remember all the details
[2011-09-04 02:23:48] <bailinphil> but my point is, what kind of game do you want to build?
[2011-09-04 02:24:16] <Ellington> The Vision from me: A game. A working game. Something similar to Skyrates (that does NOT steal IP) trade, combat, flying around, the radio so all the awesome people can still chat
[2011-09-04 02:24:20] -->| Gila (47c1efaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.193.239.170) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:24:30] <Duxe> I concur with Ell
[2011-09-04 02:25:11] <Duxe> There are some things I can wish were more interactive, combat and flying for example.
[2011-09-04 02:25:13] <Austin_J> Yeah, something with Elite-ish trading, twitch-based combat, and a chat function to me seem to be the core of what we want.
[2011-09-04 02:25:14] <Talon> 'sporadic mmo with fantastic elements'?
[2011-09-04 02:25:18] |<-- Gila has left freenode (Client Quit)
[2011-09-04 02:25:20] <Ellington> Ideally, after 1.0's prototyping and testing, we can build something thats sort of open source/crowdsourced... if you can program in a feature, i think (in general) we'd like it
[2011-09-04 02:25:49] -->| plight (~plight@c-98-235-241-187.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:25:54] <Joseph_W> How much player interaction did you have in mind.  Also, how much is actually possible?
[2011-09-04 02:26:04] <Ellington> One of the things that made Skyrates great was the personal touches from the devs,,, the chats, the events
[2011-09-04 02:26:09] <Vincent_Cross> That sounds like a pretty accurate, if broad description, Talon. At least from what I've heard.
[2011-09-04 02:26:12] -->| Zabrak (47c1efaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.193.239.170) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 02:26:34] <Sapheta> I'd like more immersion, personally. People (NPCs) to talk to, an actual lore implemented somewhere in-game rather than mostly out of the game. But that's just me.
[2011-09-04 02:26:47] <Duxe> I agree with that
[2011-09-04 02:26:54] |<-- Zabrak has left freenode (Client Quit)
[2011-09-04 02:27:17] <Vincent_Cross> I'll second, or third that
[2011-09-04 02:27:24] <plight> hm
[2011-09-04 02:27:35] <ZhanaFox> huh?
[2011-09-04 02:27:38] <plight> i got booted, reconnected, now i'm apparently sitting on my own name
[2011-09-04 02:27:50] <plight> and 'plight' belongs to someone else i guess
[2011-09-04 02:27:54] <Duxe> If we want a lore implemented game, where to start? Should we draw from what we already know or scrap it and create something new?
[2011-09-04 02:27:59] =-= Mode #fauxrates +o plight by ChanServ
[2011-09-04 02:27:59] =-= plight is now known as bailin_phil
[2011-09-04 02:28:07] <Austin_J> I'll agree that the sporadic nature helps a lot too. It lets you feel like you don't have to let the game take over your life, but the queue will end eventually, and that will bring you back. And then chat keeps you there, hopefully.
[2011-09-04 02:28:10] <bailin_phil> oh, whoops
[2011-09-04 02:28:10] |<-- bailinphil has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2011-09-04 02:28:12] =-= Mode #fauxrates +o Ellington by ChanServ
[2011-09-04 02:28:14] <Vincent_Cross> Also, I sent an email, Ell. Just saying hi.
[2011-09-04 02:28:17] <Walther_Walrus> IP issues dictate that the lore be new.
[2011-09-04 02:28:18] =-= bailin_phil is now known as bailinphil
[2011-09-04 02:28:18] =-= Mode #fauxrates -o Walther_Walrus by ChanServ
[2011-09-04 02:28:33] <Walther_Walrus> ...when the {static} did I get an @ to lose?
[2011-09-04 02:28:42] <Ellington> I would like to keep the real time flights, yes
[2011-09-04 02:28:52] <Sapheta> Yes on real-time flights.
[2011-09-04 02:28:55] <Mahmoth> Keep the sporadic nature, potentially the flight, move the ideas elsewhere.
[2011-09-04 02:29:03] <Talon> Real time flights with sporadic combat is an incredibly intelligent way to do turns without actually making it obvious
[2011-09-04 02:29:03] <Vincent_Cross> Aye, the real-time flights and such are nice.
[2011-09-04 02:29:18] <Austin_J> Yeah, lore is gonna have to be drastically different. We might even have to drop skylands, if we're sufficiently worried about IP violations.
[2011-09-04 02:29:30] <Eskay> Ell wrote: "if you can program in a feature, i think (in general) we'd like it." ...Maybe. But that's not the way to build a cohesive game.
[2011-09-04 02:29:32] |<-- ZhanaFox has left freenode (Quit: Page closed)
[2011-09-04 02:29:38] <Sapheta> Also, what I was thinking with lore implementation: Say, on a "skyland" as we'll call them for now, you could enter towns and talk to people, gain missions, etc
[2011-09-04 02:29:47] <Talon> Well, it would have to go through the coding team, Eskay, so there's definitely a limit there
[2011-09-04 02:30:13] <Eskay> I'm sorry, am I messing about in the big kids' channel and I should go back in my coder box?
[2011-09-04 02:30:15] <Ellington> well, Eskay.. people did stuff like lurker and graphs and hotmod, etc. thats what I was mostly thinking. Though if someone can add on, say, hangars...
[2011-09-04 02:30:37] <Mahmoth> Problem I see is, it's hard to move in a direction from skyrates that isn't either jet-powered flight or Generic Space Flight.  (The latter of which can work, but there's so much space.)
[2011-09-04 02:30:45] <Eskay> What if somebody can add on a cool new feature like clamping the market prices at plain-red and plain-purple?
[2011-09-04 02:31:07] <Eskay> Mahmoth: No it isn't. Boom! I'm flying on dragons!
[2011-09-04 02:31:22] <Austin_J> Mah: Actual pirates! With sloops and galleons!
[2011-09-04 02:31:23] <Eskay> Now I'm flying kites in a toroidal gas cloud!
[2011-09-04 02:31:34] <Talon> toroidal gas clouds, that has to make it in
[2011-09-04 02:31:43] <Sapheta> Dragons? :3
[2011-09-04 02:31:43] <matejcik> agreed
[2011-09-04 02:31:49] * Mahmoth is hidebound and curmudgeonly, yis.
[2011-09-04 02:32:20] <Vincent_Cross> I kind of like the idea of making Pirate a joinable faction for those who want to do PvP. The other folks could have a PvP option to turn on and off, determining whether they actually encounter PC pirates, or just bots.
[2011-09-04 02:32:40] <Talon> PvP is definitely something that is 2.0 or higher, and I think we should more or less avoid talking about it for now
[2011-09-04 02:32:55] <Vincent_Cross> Alrighty.
[2011-09-04 02:33:07] <Mahmoth> Given how averse Skyrates devs have been to it and the difficulties apparently inherent.
[2011-09-04 02:33:08] <bailinphil> hm
[2011-09-04 02:33:11] <Ellington> personally.. I like the ww2ish era. There are tons of crazy planes in the real world to pick from, and its decently easy to make a cool one
[2011-09-04 02:33:15] <bailinphil> i don't know
[2011-09-04 02:33:20] <Austin_J> If we're talking about 1.0 implementation, then we should figure out what modules the coders can make and test independently. Like an economy simulator.
[2011-09-04 02:33:31] <Sapheta> What about my ideas on easy/hard modes, where easy would make no consequences when losing a combat (like losing cargo) and hard would?
[2011-09-04 02:33:32] <bailinphil> maybe p2p is more feasible if it's designed in from the beginning
[2011-09-04 02:33:34] <Talon> actually, bailinphil, would it be wise to design pvp in from the outset to avoid having to recode p-
[2011-09-04 02:33:38] <Talon> yeah, that
[2011-09-04 02:34:02] <bailinphil> like, if the game were more turn based instead of realtime combat
[2011-09-04 02:34:09] <bailinphil> pvp: aok!
[2011-09-04 02:34:23] <Ellington> heh, steambirds combat? interesting
[2011-09-04 02:34:30] <Sapheta> Of course, the two groups would be separated in terms of "leaderboards," per se
[2011-09-04 02:34:41] <bailinphil> you just have to send a couple packets across with "actions in my turn"
[2011-09-04 02:34:57] <bailinphil> you could design an elaborate card game
[2011-09-04 02:35:03] <Austin_J> I'll say that I agree with Ell that the 1930-40s aesthetic has a certain amount of romanticism for me. It feels kind of like a Wild West of flight.
[2011-09-04 02:35:12] <bailinphil> like dominion or magic the gathering
[2011-09-04 02:35:41] <bailinphil> i had an idea a while back for texas defend 'em
[2011-09-04 02:35:50] <Duxe> You could possibly stray into the early 50's
[2011-09-04 02:35:51] <Joseph_W> And here I was thinking of Triple Triad
[2011-09-04 02:36:08] <Duxe> Props were still dominant and jets were fledglings
[2011-09-04 02:36:09] <Ellington> I'ma go ahead and call for a vote. Any major objections to setting it in an alternate world type WW2 ish technology level?
[2011-09-04 02:36:24] <NaesDraw> I agree with the time period myself, 40-50s.
[2011-09-04 02:36:30] <Austin_J> Aside from possible IP violation issues, I'm totally down with that.
[2011-09-04 02:36:36] <Sapheta> I agree!
[2011-09-04 02:36:41] <Vincent_Cross> I love the current 40-50s time period
[2011-09-04 02:36:42] <matejcik> aye for the proposition
[2011-09-04 02:36:44] <Atomsk_> I'd prefer 30-40's, but close enough.
[2011-09-04 02:36:45] <Mahmoth> I'm with Austin.
[2011-09-04 02:36:55] <TommyC_> sure, why not.
[2011-09-04 02:37:00] <Ellington> well, there are some 30's ish planes in low tiers :D
[2011-09-04 02:37:01] <Eskay> Austin J wrote, "I'll say that I agree with Ell that the 1930-40s aesthetic has a certain amount of romanticism for me. It feels kind of like a Wild West of flight."
[2011-09-04 02:37:12] <Vincent_Cross> I think 30's to 40's might actually be better, yeah...
[2011-09-04 02:37:24] <Eskay> What about "the Wild West in flight"? Cowboys on hippogriffs?
[2011-09-04 02:37:42] <matejcik> gunslingers on rogallos
[2011-09-04 02:37:43] <Ellington> plus, I wants me a p-38... anyway! WW2ish it is
[2011-09-04 02:37:46] <Mahmoth> Some fantastical elements might be interesting.
[2011-09-04 02:37:49] <Sapheta> That mental image is hilarious, Eskay.
[2011-09-04 02:38:02] <Joseph_W> What, a la Cowboys and Aliens, Mahm?
[2011-09-04 02:38:47] <Joseph_W> But really, it would be interesting to see some cross over.  But keeping on-topic, I'm vote if I have on is in line with everyone who has voted already.
[2011-09-04 02:38:50] <Mahmoth> Not quite.  More in the direction of vague clockpunkishness, general fantasy,
[2011-09-04 02:38:56] <Talon> post-armaggeddon ww2 where you have isolated safe zones and everything else is incredibly saturated with radiation?
[2011-09-04 02:39:07] <Ellington> i'ma have to think hard about how we want combat... the Skyrates model is proven to more or less work.. but I like some of phils thoughts..
[2011-09-04 02:39:16] <Talon> steampunk mustangs! almost jet engines but not quite! criss-crossing america and europe!
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[2011-09-04 02:39:26] <Joseph_W> Actually Talon, that's really interesting.  Never though of that one before.
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[2011-09-04 02:39:33] <Joseph_W> Or considered.
[2011-09-04 02:39:40] <Austin_J_> Missed everything after Eskay's Wild West comment
[2011-09-04 02:39:42] <Walther_Walrus> That's one way to replace the floating skyland model, yeah.
[2011-09-04 02:39:50] <Austin_J_> What did Talon suggest?
[2011-09-04 02:39:58] <Talon> [11:38] <Talon> post-armaggeddon ww2 where you have isolated safe zones and everything else is incredibly saturated with radiation?
[2011-09-04 02:40:02] <Talon> [11:38] <Talon> steampunk mustangs! almost jet engines but not quite! criss-crossing america and europe!
[2011-09-04 02:40:17] <Vincent_Cross> What, like steam-powered turboprops?
[2011-09-04 02:40:23] <Ellington> Last Exile :D
[2011-09-04 02:40:39] <Joseph_W> Not familiar, unfortunally.
[2011-09-04 02:40:41] * Vincent_Cross is watching that right now :P
[2011-09-04 02:40:43] <matejcik> i agree with everything said above. it sounds AWESOME
[2011-09-04 02:40:43] <Duxe> it would be more like dieselpunk than steam
[2011-09-04 02:40:45] <Calvin> Hi folks. Here mostly to Lurk. Sorry, I won't be able to contribute much to the discussion today.
[2011-09-04 02:40:51] <Ellington> 's ok Calvin
[2011-09-04 02:40:53] <Talon> good to have you, Calvin
[2011-09-04 02:40:59] <Calvin> tyvm
[2011-09-04 02:41:06] <Duxe> Afternnoon Calvin, thanks for joining nonetheless.
[2011-09-04 02:41:09] <Mahmoth> Hm.  Perhaps not floating islands, but a region where much of the ground has collapsed or fallen away, leaving pinnacles of rock.
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[2011-09-04 02:41:16] <Eskay> I'm just saying, 1945 is not the be-all end-all of awesome aviation.
[2011-09-04 02:41:17] =-= Austin_J_ is now known as Austin_J
[2011-09-04 02:41:25] * Calvin bans Duxe
[2011-09-04 02:41:41] <Duxe> ?
[2011-09-04 02:41:45] <matejcik> Mahmoth: why not both?
[2011-09-04 02:41:45] <Joseph_W> True.
[2011-09-04 02:41:56] <Calvin> j/k
[2011-09-04 02:42:04] <Talon> the floating islands thing, while artistically awesome, sort of begs fantasy
[2011-09-04 02:42:08] <Duxe> ~.~ *sweatdrops*
[2011-09-04 02:42:18] <Ellington> it sounds like we have several ideas that can all work and be cool.. I'm tempted to have people send in proposals
[2011-09-04 02:42:27] <Mahmoth> Or some decent sciency handwaving to back it up.
[2011-09-04 02:42:38] <Austin_J> I suggested a South Seas sort of region, ordinary islands, last time this came up.
[2011-09-04 02:42:45] <Walther_Walrus> Sweet, sweet unobtanium
[2011-09-04 02:42:55] <Talon> huge airfans underneath each rock, along with balloons?
[2011-09-04 02:43:02] <Mahmoth> Eskay does make me wonder; are we going to do technological progression?
[2011-09-04 02:43:16] <Joseph_W> As far as in era?
[2011-09-04 02:43:28] <Ellington> what sort of techno progression?
[2011-09-04 02:43:40] <Mahmoth> Skyrates is static, but given that we're suggesting a breathing game, is, say, 1.7 going to introduce jet planes.
[2011-09-04 02:43:41] <Eskay> If you're having a "round" system, then you can have tech advance either within or between rounds.
[2011-09-04 02:43:45] <Duxe> Query: What about Unobtanium? Are we going to change that as well or still try to implement it?
[2011-09-04 02:43:49] <Talon> what eskay said
[2011-09-04 02:43:58] <Austin_J> Well, that'd keep us art team members busy.
[2011-09-04 02:44:00] <Eskay> If you say tech advances between rounds, it's conceivable your artists stab you.
[2011-09-04 02:44:08] <Ellington> ^
[2011-09-04 02:44:12] <Walther_Walrus> Very conceivable
[2011-09-04 02:44:16] <Eskay> And/or thank you for all the glorious _money_ they're requiring you pay.
[2011-09-04 02:44:18] <Talon> or if you have a standardized dev team, you can actually just release expansions (for moneys?)
[2011-09-04 02:44:22] <Talon> a la the wow model
[2011-09-04 02:44:31] <Joseph_W> Hmm.
[2011-09-04 02:44:34] <Mahmoth> Unlikely, I'd say.
[2011-09-04 02:44:42] <Mahmoth> That'd need a Full On Game.
[2011-09-04 02:44:46] <Talon> so Fauxrates 2.0 is the 'release', and then 2.1, 2.2 introduce early jet engines, etc, etc
[2011-09-04 02:44:46] <Eskay> But if tech advances _within_ rounds?
[2011-09-04 02:44:50] <Talon> well, it's a freemium model
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[2011-09-04 02:45:05] <Eskay> It's no trouble at all to have craft come onto the market one, two, five, eight months into the game.
[2011-09-04 02:45:10] <Talon> tech advancing within rounds isn't too hard either --- right
[2011-09-04 02:45:21] <Ellington> there are several things that make me leery of evolving tech... mostly limits, how long it lasts, art, coding...
[2011-09-04 02:45:35] <Talon> if the system is sound, ell, coding isn't a problem
[2011-09-04 02:45:39] <Eskay> Keep people fresh -- it's no help if you max out your plane in two months, because new, better planes will be along in one more.
[2011-09-04 02:45:41] <Talon> you're essentially just adding in another variable
[2011-09-04 02:45:44] <Ellington> combat balance..
[2011-09-04 02:46:02] <Talon> balance is harder but the idea is that it scales with 'better' gear
[2011-09-04 02:46:05] <Joseph_W> Two things with the plane issue.
[2011-09-04 02:46:08] <Ellington> pay to play desmolishes f2p is never good
[2011-09-04 02:46:29] <Joseph_W> One, at least with some of the older player when kits were around, some got rather attactched to their older planes
[2011-09-04 02:46:32] <Eskay> Helps save on the problem of people (a) "winning" the game by getting a top-tier plane or (b) "solving" combat by understanding all planes, too early in the round.
[2011-09-04 02:46:54] <Joseph_W> Do we want to move away from that or have it that slightler older planes can still hold their own
[2011-09-04 02:47:08] <Talon> Though really it just delays the end-game, which we haven't even talked about yet
[2011-09-04 02:47:17] <Austin_J> Honestly, this sounds like a 2.0 problem, not a 1.0 one.
[2011-09-04 02:47:20] <Talon>  ^
[2011-09-04 02:47:23] <Eskay> Or you could come along six months into the round and throw kits on the market.
[2011-09-04 02:47:28] <NaesDraw> If you are willing to put the cash into older planes, you should be able to.
[2011-09-04 02:47:44] <Joseph_W> Then we shall cross the bridge when we get to it?
[2011-09-04 02:47:53] <Eskay> But my _point_, which I'm being drawn off of
[2011-09-04 02:47:53] <Joseph_W> I'm fine with skipping this issue now.
[2011-09-04 02:48:12] <Eskay> is that there is room for the _flavor_ of advancing technology, even if we don't have higher tech each round.
[2011-09-04 02:48:22] <Sapheta> What about progression unlocking kits?
[2011-09-04 02:48:27] <Talon> the kit issue is definitely a balance perspective, though that's actually getting close to a model of replacable chassis where you fly the plane you like to look at and have it equally competitive, such that not all your top end players have tbolts and ingers
[2011-09-04 02:48:37] <Joseph_W> Exactly.
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[2011-09-04 02:49:11] <Joseph_W> Also if there is a pay model, I wouldn't want those ships to just all be strictly 'better-thans'.
[2011-09-04 02:49:21] <Joseph_W> But I'm not sure how avoidable that is.
[2011-09-04 02:49:23] <Talon> so this is actually a very good point
[2011-09-04 02:49:25] <Talon> economics of skyrates
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[2011-09-04 02:49:36] <Talon> and of paying the dev team, having a sustainable model, and not driving people away
[2011-09-04 02:49:38] <Austin_J> Eskay: That's a good point. I'd go with no, for a reason that sounds paradoxial. The 30's and 40's were a time of great technological change, and once that change was over, that era could no longer exist.
[2011-09-04 02:50:14] <Talon> What are peoples thoughts on charging, microtransactions, better planes for money, customization for money, and the like?
[2011-09-04 02:50:25] <Duxe> hmm
[2011-09-04 02:50:29] <Mahmoth> Hangars for moneys!
[2011-09-04 02:50:32] <Talon> Essentially, how do you feel that we could actually not drive the person paying for the server (me) into the ground?
[2011-09-04 02:50:35] <Austin_J> Same reason the Wild West lasted a much shorter time than people think it did.
[2011-09-04 02:50:41] <Eskay> Austin, that's a good point -- but doesn't that go great with tech advancing in rounds? Start a round in 1930, run through 1948, reboot?
[2011-09-04 02:50:44] <Ellington> better planes for money is a can of worms that may or may not solvable/desirable
[2011-09-04 02:50:51] <Duxe> yeah
[2011-09-04 02:51:07] <Duxe> it kinda sets apart players who might not be able to afford it
[2011-09-04 02:51:08] <Ellington> perks for money, ie hangars, customization, titles, etc.. all ok
[2011-09-04 02:51:17] <Duxe> That i agree with
[2011-09-04 02:51:18] <Mahmoth> Yeah.
[2011-09-04 02:51:43] <Joseph_W> I think by and large you could get away with charging with things that can slightly improve the speed of progression.
[2011-09-04 02:51:45] <Austin_J> Depending on the implementation, hangars for money *might* be abusable, but probably not as much as better planes for money.
[2011-09-04 02:51:47] <Eskay> Phrased a different way, the market for freemium games offering progression for money is already well served.
[2011-09-04 02:51:58] <Joseph_W> ^^
[2011-09-04 02:52:01] <Talon> by well served
[2011-09-04 02:52:10] <Talon> do you mean that there's no room for competition? because that i could disagree with
[2011-09-04 02:52:28] <bailinphil> team, i'm sorry, it's been a long couple days (family wedding) and i'm falling asleep
[2011-09-04 02:52:36] <Ellington> (phil is hung over :D )
[2011-09-04 02:52:39] <bailinphil> i'll stay in here but can feel myself nodding off
[2011-09-04 02:52:40] <Joseph_W> Well, something along more the lines of the MANN CO. store?
[2011-09-04 02:52:47] <Austin_J> Understandable, Phil! Goodnight!
[2011-09-04 02:53:07] <Eskay> Joseph, I will come back to MANN CO.
[2011-09-04 02:53:09] <Austin_J> Fauxrates the Hat Simulator?
[2011-09-04 02:53:18] <Duxe> Eh?
[2011-09-04 02:53:18] <Joseph_W> Roger, Eskay.
[2011-09-04 02:53:20] <Talon> flying-based hat simulator
[2011-09-04 02:53:21] <Eskay> Whereas there are lots fewer games offering cosmetic customization for money, but not progression.
[2011-09-04 02:54:07] <Eskay> "Sell hats, not weapons" sort of thing -- there aren't a lot of games with that. Is that because it's not viable, or is it a market being under-served?
[2011-09-04 02:54:08] <Talon> So, I think the reason that people offer progression for money (i.e. the sims social and civworld on facebook) is because they have a compelling game that makes you want to do so. also the social element of competition
[2011-09-04 02:54:24] <Ellington> I think we/most of us are in agreement that some sort of microtransactions are good
[2011-09-04 02:54:30] <Duxe> Aye
[2011-09-04 02:54:48] <Talon> the problem with microtransactions -- or handling real money of any sort -- is that you start evolving toward a need to guarantee service
[2011-09-04 02:54:53] <Joseph_W> I mean, it's been a while since I played S4, but they had a FTP model, and while the idea behind how they did their equipment model verses paying for equipment was ok, the practice behind it didn't quite work out as far as gameplay balance is concerned.
[2011-09-04 02:55:12] <Austin_J> And, with enough of an audience, I think we could do merch. I know last round, I would have payed money for a patch featuring a Dauntless or Thunderbolt.
[2011-09-04 02:55:50] <TommyC_> heh
[2011-09-04 02:55:56] <Eskay> The concept behind the MANN CO. store says that everything you can buy, you could possibly acquire just playing the game. That goes some way towards softening the sting.
[2011-09-04 02:56:08] <Ellington> heh, i'll pick you up one at the air show, austin. you can just cross out warthog and put Avenger
[2011-09-04 02:56:16] <Talon> hahah
[2011-09-04 02:56:19] <Joseph_W> I didn't dabble too much in Sprial Knights, and RuneScape has gone though a lot of changes.  But in both games you could pay money to speed up your progression a buit.  But it's something you could normally for free with little time difference
[2011-09-04 02:56:30] <Vincent_Cross> I agree with Austin J. Along with the cosmetics for cash, I know I'd probably pay for a patch or shirt.
[2011-09-04 02:56:33] * Vincent_Cross shrugs
[2011-09-04 02:56:40] <Joseph_W> I should say little, without signicast difference.
[2011-09-04 02:56:51] <Talon> Well, Runescape actually changed to specific areas that you needed to pay for to get into
[2011-09-04 02:56:56] <Talon> (this is circa like...2005)
[2011-09-04 02:57:02] <Austin_J> But I'm not a fan of the Avenger! People get attached to their favorite planes.
[2011-09-04 02:57:09] <Joseph_W> Ah.  Shows how long ago I played it.
[2011-09-04 02:57:15] <Austin_J> Which is half of the whole kit issue.
[2011-09-04 02:57:29] <Sapheta> Ellington: For the next meeting, perhaps an actual agenda wouldn't be bad. ;)
[2011-09-04 02:57:35] <Joseph_W> Also, the last thing Eskay said.
[2011-09-04 02:57:59] <Talon> Well, following that thread, Joseph_W/Eskay, you're looking at random drops
[2011-09-04 02:58:03] <Austin_J> Eskay: So, pay for random-dropped stuff like Gun Mods, but not for new planes?
[2011-09-04 02:58:06] <Talon> which works well with the current combat mod thematic, but-
[2011-09-04 02:58:09] <Duxe> * Agrees with Sapheta
[2011-09-04 02:58:11] <Talon> {static}, austin, right ahead of me :P
[2011-09-04 02:58:17] <Joseph_W> And that's my main point with the MANN CO model.  Technically everything (or most everything) you can get from playing the game.
[2011-09-04 02:58:18] <Eskay> Random drops doesn't have a thing to do with it.
[2011-09-04 02:58:20] <Austin_J> It's like I'm psychic
[2011-09-04 02:58:25] <Ellington> I've got valuable things to think about already :)
[2011-09-04 02:58:43] <Eskay> The concept works the same if I'm paying on Cidade for plane mods sold on Uurwerk.
[2011-09-04 02:58:49] <matejcik> so, guys, did we actually agree on a setting, or did that fall through?
[2011-09-04 02:58:49] <Ellington> ok. New topic
[2011-09-04 02:58:53] <Joseph_W> Not quite Talon.  Could be a quest reward of sorts (Like one of the quests in Diablo 2).
[2011-09-04 02:59:17] <Ellington> I am... pondering very hard a non-skyrates type of combat.
[2011-09-04 02:59:26] <Eskay> As to merch: Cory Doctorow wrote a good article on how to get paid for your IP, while letting your fans explore merchandising possibilities. http://www.internetevolution.com/document.asp?doc_id=176353
[2011-09-04 02:59:39] <Eskay> I recommend following his model if possible.
[2011-09-04 02:59:49] <Austin_J> A non-skyrates type of combat? Are we back to the Steambirds thing?
[2011-09-04 02:59:54] <Eskay> Tell me more, Ell.
[2011-09-04 03:00:17] <Ellington> phil got me thinking, I admit.
[2011-09-04 03:00:39] <Ellington> turn based might allow for the pvp people keep screaming about.... and if done well is tons of fun
[2011-09-04 03:01:17] <Eskay> What about "Steambirds x Altitude"?
[2011-09-04 03:01:23] <Eskay> Side-on turn-based?
[2011-09-04 03:01:35] <Austin_J> It'd better not be as HARD as Steambirds. I suck at that game.
[2011-09-04 03:01:41] <Duxe> ^
[2011-09-04 03:01:43] <Talon> um, just for the record
[2011-09-04 03:01:49] <Talon> oh, nevermind
[2011-09-04 03:02:32] <Austin_J> Then again, having a personalized plane (or the friends in your wing) to go in instead of a preselected scenario might make the "difficulty" point moot.
[2011-09-04 03:02:45] <Austin_J> Talon, did I preempt you again?
[2011-09-04 03:02:47] <Sapheta> Hey, idea for combat:
[2011-09-04 03:02:47] <Sapheta> Top down, like Skyrates, with a button that lets you switch between three altitudes (low, medium, high) and different NPC planes lurk on certain altitudes
[2011-09-04 03:02:51] <Talon> not quite, Austin_J
[2011-09-04 03:03:53] <Duxe> Sorry must pull out for now. Have a nice day everyone.
[2011-09-04 03:04:01] <Sapheta> See you, duxe
[2011-09-04 03:04:01] <Talon> cya Duxe
[2011-09-04 03:04:10] |<-- Duxe has left freenode (Quit: Page closed)
[2011-09-04 03:04:33] <Talon> Sapheta: go on. What challenges does it produce and what benefits for the player? What are the rewards?
[2011-09-04 03:04:38] <Eskay> Sapheta, a button in-combat or a button out-of-combat?
[2011-09-04 03:05:02] <Sapheta> Either, I suppose. Let me try to go deeper...
[2011-09-04 03:05:17] <Ellington> Like SKies of Arcadia in some ways :D
[2011-09-04 03:05:51] <Austin_J> [Diversion] I used to listen to music from that game whenever I encountered a Tubs of Fun [/diversion]
[2011-09-04 03:05:53] <Joseph_W> Actually, if doing turn-based, I like the idea that Frozen Synpase did.
[2011-09-04 03:06:00] <Vincent_Cross> Well, it could affect the types of combats you get. Like, more swarms of little planes at lower altitudes, and smaller groups of more dangerous planes?
[2011-09-04 03:06:08] <Vincent_Cross> For the altitude thing?
[2011-09-04 03:06:40] <Austin_J> Joseph: I've heard of Frozen Synapse, but don't know much about it. What did they do?
[2011-09-04 03:07:55] <Ellington> Re: setting... yall tossed out some ideas. Write me up a proposal if youre serious about wanting to see it. Personally, I lean very firmly in the ww2ish setting, but am not 100% decided. Yall have roughly a week :D
[2011-09-04 03:08:01] * matejcik notices that as the discussion turned to more obscure games, the chatter died down...
[2011-09-04 03:08:10] <Sapheta> If it's implemented out of combat, it would be like risky/safe/normal, with safe being low altitude. But it would take longer to get someplace. High altitudes would be like risky and take faster. If implemented in combat, low altitude would be easy, medium normal, and high hard. Completing one of the altitudes would be required, and would give awards that are proportional (less money for...
[2011-09-04 03:08:10] <Sapheta> ...lower altitudes) However, you can clear more than one altitude for more rewards.
[2011-09-04 03:08:18] <Joseph_W> In a nutshell: Player(s) turns consider of five second rounds.  In which you plot out your unit(s) actions.  But you are blind to your opponent's.  You commit to your actions, and then see your results.
[2011-09-04 03:08:27] <Joseph_W> You keep going until one side remains.
[2011-09-04 03:08:35] <Sapheta> Like a button saying "finish combat" would appear after clearing an altitude level.
[2011-09-04 03:08:46] <Austin_J> Yeah, that's what Steambirds does, with the addition of each craft has a limited set of special abilites.
[2011-09-04 03:09:16] <Joseph_W> Ah.  I was unfamiliar.  Frozen Synapse deal with tat combate.
[2011-09-04 03:09:19] -->| KARTABS (~GaMzEe@c-98-248-222-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 03:09:38] <Joseph_W> tactical*
[2011-09-04 03:09:41] <Austin_J> Ell: You'll get my proposal this evening.
[2011-09-04 03:09:47] <Ellington> thank you, AJ
[2011-09-04 03:09:51] <Joseph_W> A sort of turn based top down Counter-Strike.
[2011-09-04 03:10:18] <Eskay> Ell, I suggest closing out the session with a reminder, and posting to the thread too.
[2011-09-04 03:10:57] <Austin_J> And definitely come up with a more focused topic for next time, because this was kind of a shotgun blast of ideas.
[2011-09-04 03:11:01] <Sapheta> I'll post my logs of this all in the thread .:)
[2011-09-04 03:11:02] <Ellington> will do
[2011-09-04 03:11:07] <Walther_Walrus> Completely re-hijacking the discussion, there's one huge game design argument for floating islands in lore, and that's the ability to rearrange the map at will.
[2011-09-04 03:11:15] <Atomsk_> ooh
[2011-09-04 03:11:19] <Sapheta> Someone should probably summarize ideas and points, etc
[2011-09-04 03:11:29] <Talon> nahhhhh, just think of nukes dropping and people moving to other towns :P
[2011-09-04 03:11:36] <Talon> (for the post-apoc idea, at least)
[2011-09-04 03:11:49] <Walther_Walrus> Gonna run out of uncontaminated land, man.
[2011-09-04 03:11:54] <Joseph_W> ^^
[2011-09-04 03:11:57] <Joseph_W> That, and fallout.
[2011-09-04 03:11:58] <Ellington> I like the feel of skylands
[2011-09-04 03:12:10] <Joseph_W> THough, it'd be easy to use that as an excuse to start a new round.
[2011-09-04 03:12:15] <Talon> Well, actually, if you think about it, small towns are fueling stations, big towns get nuked, small towns become big cities
[2011-09-04 03:12:25] <Walther_Walrus> Realistically, we gonna get sued by James Cameron before we get sued by Skyrates for floating islands.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:49 pm 
July 4th 2010

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[2011-09-04 03:12:26] <Joseph_W> Go to a different land mass, competely new map
[2011-09-04 03:12:29] <Talon> and you could make world events where you try and defuse nukular situations
[2011-09-04 03:12:31] <Joseph_W> Heh heh heh
[2011-09-04 03:12:55] <Talon> Also, though, 'rounds' themselves are not something we've really decided on
[2011-09-04 03:12:56] <Walther_Walrus> Talon, have you been playing Fallout recently?
[2011-09-04 03:13:04] <Talon> I have never played a single fallout game :P
[2011-09-04 03:13:09] <Joseph_W> . . . Wat.
[2011-09-04 03:13:16] <Joseph_W> I'll deal with that in other channel.
[2011-09-04 03:13:20] <Joseph_W> But color me surprised.
[2011-09-04 03:13:22] <Eskay> I don't know whether you want them to be a permanent feature of the game, but they're really helpful to the development process.
[2011-09-04 03:13:32] <Talon> Do we want rounds? Do we want to force everyone to start over? Do we need to drop everyone to zero and nuke the SFJ?
[2011-09-04 03:14:17] <Walther_Walrus> Rounds are extremely necessary if upward progress is uncapped and useful when running an open beta.
[2011-09-04 03:14:31] <Ellington> sfj?
[2011-09-04 03:14:32] <Talon> I guess gameplay-wise the question is whether you gain more new people or lose more old people that don't want to start up
[2011-09-04 03:14:33] <Talon> *over
[2011-09-04 03:14:44] <Talon> sorry, SFJ, single file journal, database
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[2011-09-04 03:14:56] <Walther_Walrus> I should say, extrmely necessary if upward progress is uncapped on any metric that people will compete on.
[2011-09-04 03:15:15] <Eskay> If you like you can invent some sort of device that shows how much progress you've made in previous rounds.
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[2011-09-04 03:15:38] <Ellington> a lot of games go with the 'he who was here first is likely to stay on top' model.. skyrates, while annoying with resets, avoided that
[2011-09-04 03:15:53] <Talon> Mmm, but it depends on what your end-game is, right
[2011-09-04 03:16:07] <Talon> because if you think about influence, there's no diff between zabrak, Sapheta, and Burrito_loco
[2011-09-04 03:16:28] <Talon> once you hit the highest tier, it's about optimization of a set pool of resources
[2011-09-04 03:17:11] <Eskay> And that works fine for anyone who cares about your competitive endgame.
[2011-09-04 03:17:14] <Talon> right
[2011-09-04 03:17:28] <Eskay> But for everyone else, you'll want _at least_ an ascension system, if not full regular resets.
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[2011-09-04 03:17:53] <Joseph_W> Like KoL?
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[2011-09-04 03:18:18] <Eskay> Like KoL.
[2011-09-04 03:18:38] <Austin_J> I had my internet knocked out by a brownout. Missed everything after Walthier's points about floating islands.
[2011-09-04 03:18:40] * Joseph_W nods.
[2011-09-04 03:18:46] <Talon> Well, if you divide people into the Bartle system, you have constant appeal to the socializers, end game appeal to the killers and achievers, and then ? to the explorers
[2011-09-04 03:19:04] <Vincent_Cross> Bluh, sorry folks, I had some financial stuff that needed taking care of, I think I've been left behind. Ell, if you're still here, I'll be sure to send you my dealie.
[2011-09-04 03:19:14] <Ellington> ty Vincent
[2011-09-04 03:19:20] <Joseph_W> DIfferent quests based on actions in previous ascensions?
[2011-09-04 03:20:15] <Talon> context is helpful, guys
[2011-09-04 03:20:24] <Talon> 'like KoL' isn't really helpful for people that haven't played
[2011-09-04 03:20:24] <Eskay> Jo, _no_.
[2011-09-04 03:20:44] <Sapheta> Austin_J:  Would you like me to PM you what you missed?
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[2011-09-04 03:20:54] <Austin_J> Yes, Saph
[2011-09-04 03:21:00] <Eskay> Well, maybe. I take back my no.
[2011-09-04 03:21:23] <Eskay> Talon, explorers are easy to satisfy once -- they'll eat your design right up.
[2011-09-04 03:21:35] <Sapheta> It's a tad long, but isn't too bad.
[2011-09-04 03:21:40] <Eskay> But they're very difficult to satisfy on an ongoing basis unless content creation is also ongoing.
[2011-09-04 03:21:57] <Sapheta> Okay, sent.
[2011-09-04 03:21:57] <Joseph_W> Break down for KoL: One you finish the main story quest you have the option to continue leveling or you can restart you character and start over, including class.
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[2011-09-04 03:22:44] <Keyo> Wow, okay.
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[2011-09-04 03:22:54] <Ellington> lo keyo
[2011-09-04 03:23:09] <Eskay> Hi, Keyo.
[2011-09-04 03:23:21] * Mahmoth gets back from dinner, considers a setting idea, may write up and send later.
[2011-09-04 03:24:01] <Ellington> Keyo: as a combat guru, would you prefer a turn based combat, or skyrate style real time?
[2011-09-04 03:24:18] <Sapheta> Announcing yet again: I'll be posting all this onto the forum after the meeting has adjourned. It'd be nice if someone snipped ideas, main points, etc from the resulting wall of text.
[2011-09-04 03:24:21] <Keyo> First of all, what have we already established about the project?
[2011-09-04 03:24:36] <Talon> yeah, Sapheta, I'll do it
[2011-09-04 03:24:41] <Talon> or Ell will
[2011-09-04 03:24:42] <Eskay> Very little.
[2011-09-04 03:24:50] <Mahmoth> Sporadic, round-based, 1930s-50s tech, more or less.
[2011-09-04 03:25:34] <Talon> as far as setting goes
[2011-09-04 03:25:40] <Talon> There's be some talk about turn based combat vs real time
[2011-09-04 03:25:42] <Talon> top down vs from the side
[2011-09-04 03:25:49] <Keyo> Re: combat, I'm actually more interested in finding out how we plan on generating it.
[2011-09-04 03:25:50] <Talon> No one's talked about trade yet :P
[2011-09-04 03:26:00] <Keyo> (Probably because trade isn't likely to change much.)
[2011-09-04 03:26:05] <Eskay> Unity 3D is also a possibility.
[2011-09-04 03:26:13] <Eskay> For combat and flight screens.
[2011-09-04 03:26:16] <Talon> jesus
[2011-09-04 03:26:18] <Talon> can we not do unity?
[2011-09-04 03:26:22] <Talon> I code in that shit and it sucks
[2011-09-04 03:26:25] <Austin_J> I've got a couple of cool ideas for trade, but I'd want to chat with the coders on it
[2011-09-04 03:26:28] <Eskay> I'm just sayin', it's there.
[2011-09-04 03:26:34] <Sapheta> Trading! Ooh!
[2011-09-04 03:26:34] <Talon> chat here, Austin_J, the coders are listening :P
[2011-09-04 03:26:48] <Talon> and keyo, given the opportunity to rewrite trade, there isn't /anything/ you'd like to do with it?
[2011-09-04 03:27:07] <Ellington> Its a rule: NO ^$*# flaT TRADES
[2011-09-04 03:27:10] <Talon> Make the factories more obvious? Make computer controlled levis that make looking at the in-game map of players actually useful?
[2011-09-04 03:27:18] <Eskay> If you want to talk to only coders, they can usually be found in #fauxrates-implementation .
[2011-09-04 03:27:40] <matejcik> that part about making the ingame map useful, i like.
[2011-09-04 03:27:50] <Austin_J> Ah. Well, the idea is that it;d be slightly more of an economic simulator. You;d have something like 4 different categories of commodities, consumables, raw materials, finished goods, and luxuries.
[2011-09-04 03:27:59] <Eskay> But it's often a dry, coder-y place.
[2011-09-04 03:27:59] <Keyo> Oh, there are plenty of things I'd like to do with it.
[2011-09-04 03:28:15] <Eskay> Beware of nerds, you know.
[2011-09-04 03:28:16] <matejcik> (sometimes even a very hot and dry codery place)
[2011-09-04 03:28:25] <Keyo> But the BASIC idea is the same.  Multiple goods, buy low, sell high, stepped tiers of goods.
[2011-09-04 03:28:26] <Austin_J> Consumables would be stuff like food and maybe oil, everywhere needs it unless they produce it (and it's likely you can tell from the land what it produces)
[2011-09-04 03:29:07] <Austin_J> Raw materials and finished goods are two sides of the same coin: places with a goods factory need materials.
[2011-09-04 03:29:08] <Sapheta> A little piece of dialog (like under, in game, where it says the amount of people at a skyland) saying what the skyland produces.
[2011-09-04 03:29:15] <Austin_J> Luxuries are just flat random.
[2011-09-04 03:29:31] <Sapheta> Also, how would goods be taken out of the system?
[2011-09-04 03:30:12] <Keyo> I imagine we're still looking at consumption at varying intervals.
[2011-09-04 03:30:35] * Sapheta tags a "would be nice, anyway" at the end of her post ending with "what the skyland produces."
[2011-09-04 03:30:39] <matejcik> i would like "trade insurance" to stop you from buying goods not produced locally
[2011-09-04 03:30:44] <Austin_J> Well, for consumables, they need a constant supply, so regularly subtracted (and if they don't get enough, markets on the skyland start crashing). Raw materials are converted into goods when consumed.
[2011-09-04 03:30:50] <Talon> would you have to pay money for insurance, matejcik|gone?
[2011-09-04 03:30:55] <Keyo> Re: luxuries, I'd prefer to see something like contraband instead.
[2011-09-04 03:30:56] <Talon> ...stupid auto-complete
[2011-09-04 03:30:56] <Eskay> So nothing says our minigames have to be taken from {trade, combat, skyland-control-influence-missions}.
[2011-09-04 03:30:56] <Austin_J> matejcik, that would be a great idea!
[2011-09-04 03:31:00] <matejcik> as in
[2011-09-04 03:31:14] <matejcik> there is stuff up for sale. if you're on an oil rig, they sell oil
[2011-09-04 03:31:20] <Keyo> (I'd prefer to remove influence from the game and come up with something else instead)
[2011-09-04 03:31:21] <matejcik> they -don't- sell food, because they eat it
[2011-09-04 03:31:30] <Talon> ideas are good, keyo :P
[2011-09-04 03:31:33] <matejcik> as long as they don't have huge amounts of it
[2011-09-04 03:31:33] <Talon> + eskay
[2011-09-04 03:31:43] <Austin_J> matejcik: Yeah, that's pretty much my idea.
[2011-09-04 03:31:47] <Talon> Ah -- that's a super interesting idea, actually
[2011-09-04 03:31:52] <Keyo> Sounds like a lot of us have similar ideas re: trade.
[2011-09-04 03:31:57] <Talon> In fact, just eliminate the ability to buy food from there
[2011-09-04 03:31:57] <Keyo> I was talking about similar things yesterday.
[2011-09-04 03:31:58] <matejcik> so, "trade insurance" lets you only buy stuff that is actually for sale. sure, you can buy stuff for lots of money otherwise, but not automatically
[2011-09-04 03:32:06] <Keyo> But I like that trade insurance idea.
[2011-09-04 03:32:10] <Talon> I like the idea of asymmetrical trading
[2011-09-04 03:32:11] <Austin_J> Just boiled down to my inspiration rather than ideas for implementation.
[2011-09-04 03:32:28] <Talon> instead of every skyland having everything, some skylands (or fuel depots) (or farms) will only buy/sell different things
[2011-09-04 03:32:41] <Sapheta> minigames... what about a crafting one? Apply for work at a factory, given that you have the required materials on hand, earn some money along with 25% of what you produce?
[2011-09-04 03:32:43] <Joseph_W> Seconded.
[2011-09-04 03:33:00] <Keyo> I concur with this.
[2011-09-04 03:33:07] * Walther_Walrus hands Joe a girly magazine, a mop, and a scruffy moustache.
[2011-09-04 03:33:11] <Talon> more details, Sapheta. What's the system, how do you gain materials, how do you sell things, what benefits, how does it fit in
[2011-09-04 03:33:18] <Keyo> High-tier trading is where we're going to have to mix things up a bit.
[2011-09-04 03:33:50] <Ellington> for the record: I have come down firmly on the side of combat will be real time, like skyrates
[2011-09-04 03:34:10] <Sapheta> 25% can be changed, also. Just a number I came up with.
[2011-09-04 03:34:12] <Austin_J> Hmm, maybe a "Market Knowlege" skill that improves how well you know current supply-and-demand?
[2011-09-04 03:34:15] <Joseph_W> Top down as well, Ell?
[2011-09-04 03:34:17] <Calvin> keeping the AR, Ell?
[2011-09-04 03:34:17] * Keyo is fine with real-time combat, but still is more concerned with combat generation algorithms.
[2011-09-04 03:34:41] <Eskay> Tal, I quite liked the Skyrates market in luxury collapses.
[2011-09-04 03:35:27] <Ellington> The AR was broken... I like that it game a small fundage to people over time.. and if we be sporadic (which we should) you CANT punish people for not being at the keyboard
[2011-09-04 03:35:31] <Ellington> *gave
[2011-09-04 03:35:34] <Eskay> Wait for a bunch of people to line up from a source to a sink, then watch for (say) the sink to die, then buy up really cheap goods piling up at the sink and sell them anywhere.
[2011-09-04 03:35:41] <Keyo> Another suggestion for high-tier markets: contraband.  Something you *know* is illegal, and so people who want it will pay large profit margins for it.
[2011-09-04 03:35:56] <Keyo> But there's a possibility you'll lose your initial capital.
[2011-09-04 03:36:02] <Talon> go on, keyo, about generation algorithms
[2011-09-04 03:36:04] <Austin_J> Early on, you have up-to-date info on lower-tier goods, but higher-tier goods, you basically know only the general trends (i.e. this place has a steel mill, so it probably has cheap steel). Sort of an upgrade to a Trade Liscense analogue.
[2011-09-04 03:36:15] <Keyo> Again, something you'll know before you buy contraband, because the game will tell you.
[2011-09-04 03:36:20] <Keyo> (I'll get back to combat again in a bit)
[2011-09-04 03:36:32] <Talon> Eskay -- I like that too
[2011-09-04 03:37:01] <Talon> It adds a meta-knowledge level of mastery into the game
[2011-09-04 03:37:06] <Talon> which i think is important for high-level play
[2011-09-04 03:37:35] <Keyo> Re: luxury collapses.  I think we can still keep those as well.  Raw materials and production goods can be more consistent, lower-tier trades.
[2011-09-04 03:37:38] <Talon> Keyo: re:contraband: how do you make people lose contraband in a non-random way?
[2011-09-04 03:37:53] <Keyo> And I think we can roll food and fuel into raw materials.
[2011-09-04 03:37:56] <Sapheta> Talon: Like, how we mentioned that certain places produce certain things granted that another good has a good quantity. For example, paper: You can make your own paper at a factory, and the factory would pay you to do so, but they keep some of the paper produced and you have to supply your own materials (which, for paper, would be wood, as paper is made with wood pulp)
[2011-09-04 03:38:07] <Ellington> combat losses? random isnt necessarily bad, either.
[2011-09-04 03:38:12] <Keyo> Re: contraband.  You don't, but that's kind of the idea behind the suggestion.
[2011-09-04 03:38:29] <Keyo> Some ports have more stringent rules.
[2011-09-04 03:38:30] <Sapheta> That should be worded correctly. I'm pretty terrible at getting the message across.
[2011-09-04 03:38:33] <Ellington> you can have a skill that shows how likely the inspectors are to be eyeing you
[2011-09-04 03:38:35] <Talon> Ahh, random losses I think are something we want to avoid. Rolling the die and losing $300,000 is probably a bad idea
[2011-09-04 03:38:42] <Austin_J> Keyo: That's actually kind of the idea. Food and Oil (or appropriate analogues) are meta-raw materials. If the skyland doesn't get that, everything higher shuts down.
[2011-09-04 03:39:04] <Keyo> The other idea behind contraband is that it's available only in limited quantities.
[2011-09-04 03:39:13] <Talon> Sapheta: Setting up tiers of goods, a la WoW, may actually be an interesting idea. instead of just buying and selling, being able to refine products, right, would be another level of interaction
[2011-09-04 03:39:20] <Keyo> The suppliers won't want you carting 95 crates.
[2011-09-04 03:39:21] <Ellington> its not rolling the die for everybody, though. its an investment that either doubles/triples your money, or youre out the cash/maybe other consequences too
[2011-09-04 03:39:29] <Austin_J> Which in turn means that Oil (or it's analogue) should probably be a lower-tier commodity.
[2011-09-04 03:39:31] <Keyo> Or whatever some large number is.
[2011-09-04 03:40:06] <Talon> True; it's certainly possible, Ellington, it becomes a balance question of how to make players want to roll the die (so as to use the system) but not be angry when the system repeatedly effs them over
[2011-09-04 03:40:50] <Keyo> It sounds like we've got a general consensus regarding two of the lower tiers of goods, though.  Raw materials and production goods.  Can we all agree on that?
[2011-09-04 03:40:51] <Ellington> if its an informed roll of the dice.. well... they hopefully dont gamble what they cant lose
[2011-09-04 03:41:20] <Eskay> Keyo, I'm not promising to agree to any tiers of goods right now, sorry I'm thinking about other parts of the system.
[2011-09-04 03:42:04] <Eskay> But for the sake of argument I can imagine it agreed.
[2011-09-04 03:43:56] <Keyo> (Not trying to steal anyone's thunder here, but I'm trying to figure out what we have relative consensus on and what we don't, since it's the latter that we need to hash out more)
[2011-09-04 03:44:34] <Sapheta> <late>Yeah, that was what I was thinking, Talon. Let me bring up a site that I play on, Dragonadopters, as to what they do regarding crafting:
[2011-09-04 03:44:34] <Sapheta> You have your dragons that produce amounts of resources daily. You can trade these resources for others that you don't have with other players, or you can craft them into items you and other players can use. You can also sell those, or use them yourself. To make a... red ring, for example, I'd need a red gem (paid with red aura a red dragon produces) and metal (paid with scales or fur, this...
[2011-09-04 03:44:34] <Sapheta> ...depends on the species). Every item has a success rate, and when you fail it takes resources out of the game.</late>
[2011-09-04 03:44:36] <Eskay> Nothing is solid until the flavor plans come in and we vote on them.
[2011-09-04 03:45:12] <Talon> mmm, entropy
[2011-09-04 03:46:02] <Ellington> you get to vote? :)
[2011-09-04 03:46:34] * Talon snickers.
[2011-09-04 03:46:46] <Keyo> Flavor plans?  This is clearly something important that I missed.  Synopsis via AIM, somebody?
[2011-09-04 03:47:03] <Ellington> basically, i want people to propose the world the want
[2011-09-04 03:47:09] <Ellington> *they want
[2011-09-04 03:47:25] <Eskay> The usual way is "everybody mails their proposals to [Ell], [Ell] weeds out all the ones he doesn't want, lets everybody else vote between his favorites."
[2011-09-04 03:47:27] <Keyo> Anyway.  Getting back to the other question I was asked, is combat availability still going to be RNG-based?
[2011-09-04 03:47:37] <Ellington> people mentioned sailing ships, dragons, jets, faeries...
[2011-09-04 03:47:43] <Eskay> Then everybody gets to feel like they've had some input, and Ell gets to silently kill whatever's bad.
[2011-09-04 03:48:03] <Talon> ^
[2011-09-04 03:48:07] <Ellington> the # of fights per flight you mean?
[2011-09-04 03:48:09] <Talon> Do you not like RNGs, Keyo?
[2011-09-04 03:48:21] <Eskay> Drawbacks include potentially losing people who vote for other plans.
[2011-09-04 03:48:51] <Eskay> Keyo. The random-period combats push the intermittent reinforcement buttons in people's brains, and that's a hard thing to give up.
[2011-09-04 03:48:59] <Keyo> I found the "roll a die every 5 minutes and you'd better run them all before you land" scenario tedious.
[2011-09-04 03:49:09] <Keyo> Since that's the OPPOSITE of sproadic play.
[2011-09-04 03:49:10] <Talon> Other combat related questions: do all of your shields regen after combat (only if you have a mech)?
[2011-09-04 03:49:26] <Talon> Does combat make you more money than trade?
[2011-09-04 03:49:35] <Joseph_W> I'm going to mirror Keyo's comment there.
[2011-09-04 03:49:36] <Talon> Are there other minigames we can play (as mentioned, crafting)?
[2011-09-04 03:49:46] <Ellington> Ammo should replenish. Running out of ammo was awful
[2011-09-04 03:49:57] <Eskay> Well, ideally we'd be rolling a die after each combat to tell us when the next one is. But apart from that, what's better?
[2011-09-04 03:50:00] <Keyo> I like the new ammo system.  I dislike the new armor system.
[2011-09-04 03:50:04] <Austin_J> Armor should at least partially replenish.
[2011-09-04 03:50:05] <Calvin> Perhaps this has been addressed, and I missed it, but is catering or encouraging sporadic play a priority?
[2011-09-04 03:50:17] <Eskay> Ell, recent Skyrates builds have fixed that ammo/armor thing in a manner of speaking. Is the fix satisfactory?
[2011-09-04 03:50:18] <Talon> Are there going to be larger-scale actions in this world? Factions? Are those factions going to do anything? Are there guilds?
[2011-09-04 03:50:19] <Austin_J> Calvin: I think so.
[2011-09-04 03:50:23] <Calvin> kk
[2011-09-04 03:50:26] <Joseph_W> I believe Ell is in favor of
[2011-09-04 03:50:34] <Joseph_W> Never mind, mentioned already.
[2011-09-04 03:50:50] <Austin_J> Talon: I think the factional stuff is going to be part of world proposals.
[2011-09-04 03:51:05] <Talon> I find it a much more systems based discussion, Austin_J
[2011-09-04 03:51:13] <Talon> Does catering to armor replenishing cater to the combat crowd which caters to non-sporadic play?'
[2011-09-04 03:52:02] <Keyo> Ideally I would rather have other minigames as well, and ideally, doing combat successfully would both hinder your option to trade at full power and make about as much money.
[2011-09-04 03:52:03] <Keyo> Ideally.
[2011-09-04 03:53:05] <Eskay> That's an opportunity to raise the discussion of other candidate minigames.
[2011-09-04 03:54:13] <Austin_J> Honestly, non-regenerating armor, assuming a Skyrates-like hunt system, would more encourage non-sporadic play, if you're going optimally. Fly and fight combats as they come up, until your armor is depleted, end the hunt, fix the armor, repeat.
[2011-09-04 03:54:25] <Keyo> I think crafting is a standard option and one that's viable if we refine it.
[2011-09-04 03:54:49] <Austin_J> At least with regenerating armor, you don't feel penalized for letting combats pile up for a half hour.
[2011-09-04 03:55:40] <Keyo> I'm not sure that argument is valid, because we may not have a system wherein combats 'pile up.'
[2011-09-04 03:56:03] -->| Tod (43ab1c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.28.102) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 03:56:08] <Keyo> I'm actively against such a system, in fact.
[2011-09-04 03:56:09] <Eskay> Keyo: "Crafting" is common enough that I need you to say what you mean by it.
[2011-09-04 03:56:10] <Austin_J> That's why I qualified it with a "assuming a Skyrates-like hunt system"
[2011-09-04 03:56:25] <Tod> hi!
[2011-09-04 03:56:37] <Eskay> Hi Tod! Welcome to the party!
[2011-09-04 03:56:40] <Keyo> I don't have ideas for alternative minigames.  That hasn't been something I've considered yet.
[2011-09-04 03:56:43] <Austin_J> Hello Tod!
[2011-09-04 03:56:48] <Tod> sorry that I wasn't able to get on, earlier.
[2011-09-04 03:56:57] <Keyo> I just mention alternative minigames as a possible design goal, and one I am in favor of attempting.
[2011-09-04 03:57:43] <Eskay> Okay, well let me throw a few out there.
[2011-09-04 03:58:29] <Eskay> Resource prospecting subgame: Flying out to unmarked map locations and checking them for loot somehow.
[2011-09-04 03:59:06] <Austin_J> I like that.
[2011-09-04 03:59:13] <Keyo> I will immediately cast a yes vote for that general idea.
[2011-09-04 03:59:27] <Austin_J> It works really well for my proposal, in fact.
[2011-09-04 03:59:51] <Eskay> Plane sports subgame: Using the combat engine, perform tasks other than blowing each other up.
[2011-09-04 04:00:10] <Austin_J> Air races! I think that got proposed for Skyrates once.
[2011-09-04 04:00:14] <Eskay> It did.
[2011-09-04 04:00:37] <Keyo> Could work, given enough planning and refinement.  I'll cast a firm maybe.
[2011-09-04 04:00:38] * matejcik remembers the races in LastExile
[2011-09-04 04:01:21] <Eskay> Crew combat, crew sports analogously. Tbh I'm kind of meh on this one.
[2011-09-04 04:02:20] <Austin_J> Sky soccer! Shoot a flying ball to move it to the opponents goal.
[2011-09-04 04:03:24] <Keyo> I'm not sure whether we'll even *have* crew, so that's a definite eh.
[2011-09-04 04:05:28] |<-- Eskay has left freenode (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2011-09-04 04:05:40] <Ellington> I am in favor of crew, most likely
[2011-09-04 04:05:48] <Austin_J> Well, that explains why we hav't had any more minigame suggestions
[2011-09-04 04:06:09] <matejcik> i don't care either way about crew ... that said, crew DOES add a lot of flavor for RP
[2011-09-04 04:06:09] <Talon> why not, keyo?
[2011-09-04 04:06:11] <Talon> thoughts on crew?
[2011-09-04 04:06:23] <Ellington> also, I WANT a skies of arcadia style exploration reward
[2011-09-04 04:06:28] <matejcik> which is?
[2011-09-04 04:06:42] <Keyo> Some tangible reward for flying all over the world.
[2011-09-04 04:07:48] <Keyo> No thoughts on crew.  Crew is a potential source of flavor, customization, and variance in player stats.
[2011-09-04 04:07:55] <Keyo> But depending on the flavor plan it may not be feasible.
[2011-09-04 04:08:04] <Austin_J> Would fuel-station analogues be included, or just skyland-analogues?
[2011-09-04 04:08:15] <Austin_J> (in an exploration award, that is)
[2011-09-04 04:08:47] <Keyo> Combat is central enough to the core game that I think we can start planning for it.  Crew isn't and *could* be eliminated. I don't think it will be.  But it could be.
[2011-09-04 04:09:20] <Talon> probably both, Austin_J
[2011-09-04 04:10:04] <Talon> i like the idea of large concentrations of civilization as well as smaller ones that serve distinct purposes
[2011-09-04 04:10:20] <matejcik> what i really like about current skyrates is that you can be a lone wolf with nobody but your closest friend and navigator to keep you company, or a captain of a huge ship full of engineers and cooks and all that
[2011-09-04 04:10:24] -->| Burrito_Loco (~Ponies@user-0c2ia55.cable.earthlink.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 04:10:33] -->| Eskay (~Eskay@71-217-7-118.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-04 04:10:57] <matejcik> and as long as you can have both a big ship and a small plane, it makes sense to have crew
[2011-09-04 04:11:26] <Eskay> Okay, what did I miss?
[2011-09-04 04:11:32] <Talon> http://pastebin.com/mZ0XPhRu
[2011-09-04 04:11:36] <Eskay> Danke.
[2011-09-04 04:12:49] <Eskay> Okay, I'm back up.
[2011-09-04 04:13:10] <Keyo> My other, more pressing issue with crew is that it became a necessity in Skyrates.
[2011-09-04 04:13:20] <Ellington> well, navs anyway
[2011-09-04 04:13:24] <Eskay> I'm all for exploration rewards, but they're the sort of thing you can only get once per round really.
[2011-09-04 04:13:31] <Keyo> To the point where endgame planes like the Nova and Inger had crewslots that didn't really make any sense for the plane design.
[2011-09-04 04:13:37] <Keyo> It became a limitation on the game.
[2011-09-04 04:13:39] <Eskay> Crew _as implemented in Skyrates_ is kind of a sucky subsystem.
[2011-09-04 04:13:54] <Eskay> But crew in general is a valuable source of flavor resonance.
[2011-09-04 04:13:54] <Keyo> If we refine the system somewhat, I could be for it.
[2011-09-04 04:14:05] <Eskay> Skies of Arcadia puts crew to good use.
[2011-09-04 04:14:54] <matejcik> oh, about exploration rewards, i want INSANE NUMBER OF ACHIEVEMENTS
[2011-09-04 04:15:00] <Eskay> Review: Resource prospecting, plane sports, exploration rewards?
[2011-09-04 04:15:14] <Eskay> Those were the subgame proposals we hit already?
[2011-09-04 04:15:16] <Keyo> Resource prospecting seems to meet with hearty approval.
[2011-09-04 04:15:52] <Eskay> Maybe that's the next one to invest some serious design work into, then.
[2011-09-04 04:16:05] <Talon> oh, man, gamification, matejcik, this is a whole nother concept
[2011-09-04 04:16:09] <Burrito_Loco> As long as it's not a farming/crafting system
[2011-09-04 04:16:30] <matejcik> resource prospecting should be something that works well within the setting.
[2011-09-04 04:16:33] <Keyo> The thing I like about resource generation is that it gets you something from nothing.
[2011-09-04 04:16:42] <Keyo> Which lower-tier players especially could find very helpful.
[2011-09-04 04:16:44] <matejcik> not "you drop into the sea and find random ten crates of food"
[2011-09-04 04:17:00] <Keyo> Or somebody who made bad trade decisions, though ideally that will be harder in this system.
[2011-09-04 04:17:18] <Burrito_Loco> If we're gonna "make" money we should also include sinks
[2011-09-04 04:17:23] <Austin_J> Fuel charges? ;)
[2011-09-04 04:17:26] <Keyo> I'm going to start with one right here and now.
[2011-09-04 04:17:33] <Keyo> Upgrades should go away when you get a new plane.  >.>
[2011-09-04 04:17:36] <Burrito_Loco> though it's not as pressing as long as people can't share money/stuff
[2011-09-04 04:17:38] <Eskay> Skyrates proper always forwent several cheap money sinks.
[2011-09-04 04:17:54] <Eskay> Plane upgrades that are merely flavorful, or mostly flavorful.
[2011-09-04 04:18:18] <Eskay> Bases to upgrade and decorate.
[2011-09-04 04:18:58] <Keyo> Paint jobs are an easy and effective sink.
[2011-09-04 04:19:04] <Eskay> Yes!
[2011-09-04 04:19:14] <NaesDraw> Bases that do something for the wing that uses them, would be nice.
[2011-09-04 04:19:17] <Eskay> Hmm. Buyable with in-game and out-of-game cash?
[2011-09-04 04:19:23] <Eskay> Paint jobs, I mean.
[2011-09-04 04:19:31] <Ellington> i'ma have to go in a bit, guys... thank you all for the help. I clarified several ideas in my head, even if it seemed a little chaotic :)
[2011-09-04 04:19:37] <Eskay> So that they're both a money sink and a money maker.
[2011-09-04 04:19:40] <Keyo> I like that idea too, Eskay.
[2011-09-04 04:19:46] <Eskay> Okay, Ell.
[2011-09-04 04:19:52] <Eskay> I'm gonna keep chatting subgames.
[2011-09-04 04:20:17] <Austin_J> Ell: I'm writing up my setting proposal right now :)
[2011-09-04 04:20:37] <Austin_J> I agree, I like the idea of money sinks that can by bypassed by microtransactions.
[2011-09-04 04:20:49] <Keyo> This discussion is helping me clarify a few things in my head, too, though I think Austin and I may be on similar pages in a lot of respects.
[2011-09-04 04:21:00] <Austin_J> I am?
[2011-09-04 04:21:02] <Talon> XD
[2011-09-04 04:21:04] <Talon> he is?
[2011-09-04 04:21:44] <Keyo> He seems to be, anyway!
[2011-09-04 04:21:54] <TommyC_> sleepy
[2011-09-04 04:22:22] <Burrito_Loco> Well, I mean people have been saying they'd pay for custom, viewable paint jobs for some time
[2011-09-04 04:22:36] * Keyo selfishly votes for a puzzle game interface re: harvesting.
[2011-09-04 04:22:37] <Eskay> More subgames?
[2011-09-04 04:22:55] <Eskay> oh gosh, puzzle subgames.
[2011-09-04 04:23:00] <Austin_J> Yeah, I'm actually gonna be trying to figure out how to do customizable pain job going forward into the art process
[2011-09-04 04:23:03] <Eskay> sure you don't want to go play FreeRealms?
[2011-09-04 04:23:15] <Eskay> Pain job!
[2011-09-04 04:23:47] <Eskay> But seriously, Austin, I have some thoughts in that direction left from when tSotW was working on a new improved Skycust.
[2011-09-04 04:23:48] <Burrito_Loco> bejeweled harvester clone!
[2011-09-04 04:23:52] <Burrito_Loco> >.>
[2011-09-04 04:23:54] <Burrito_Loco> <.<
[2011-09-04 04:23:55] <Keyo> Honestly, I think if we can get those four/five arenas down as a core game, that's pretty diverse.
[2011-09-04 04:24:02] <Austin_J> Given the amount of work it's likely to take, it's gonna be custom pain jobs on my end.
[2011-09-04 04:24:26] <Eskay> Keyo, we can't just run with the first five subgames we see.
[2011-09-04 04:24:26] <Austin_J> ..Thoughts in which direction? I've been throwing out lots of ideas.
[2011-09-04 04:24:47] <Keyo> Well, okay, point.
[2011-09-04 04:25:01] <Ellington> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anwi8VA6CT4-dE1hbUN2Q2lmMVZZckFTMmRpYUxDSnc&hl=en_US#gid=0 the Skyrates job contribution sheet, made by tal :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Thanks for the chat log. Was planning on being there, but work ran really really late (just getting home 7:30pm, making this post at 8).

Thorne

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:04 pm 
Developer

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Did someone else get the rest?
There was moar, like my crazytalk stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:56 am 

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Hm. I know phpBB3 and some other forum software like the back of my hand when it comes to most nontechnical stuff, but that's about all I can offer apart from ideas.

Be interesting to see where this goes, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:29 am 

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do we still have THIS person? :remylove:


Marcus, do you count "setting up and keeping up" too? that would be very, very useful


Calvin, here you go
also, i see you do jQuery and friends. you're hereby promoted to chief frontend developer :remywild:

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