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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:15 am 

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lol. the 'oh, you can do this. you're promoted' line of promotions.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:06 pm 

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I don't have much time to dedicate to Skyrates these days, but I do miss it and I'd like to support this project.

I can provide limited server space and bandwidth (not colocated - sorry west-coasters and other far away people). I have a few different host and virtualization options which I use personally, and I can stand up other options with some flexibility.

I am interested in administrating the servers as my professional expertise lies in that area, but I'm not sure I can commit to that at this time.

A better option may be to purchase server space. If so, I'm willing to contribute financially.

:gonk:

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:50 pm 

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Blast! Too bad I missed the IRC, and I know this should probably go in a suggestion thread or some such, but I feel this needs to be expressed. If there are actually rounds (which I'm against) after every round you should get certain bonuses in the next round based on achievements in the previous round/rounds. Such as, trade a certain amount and get bonus starting cash, have certain planes and get parts in the next round. Not things that are ranked, but something everyone can get. This would improve the odds of people actually wanting to start over since it gets a bit different with the next play through. This could be based on an achievement system a-la X-Box 360 with prizes instead of points, and this adds more that can be added to later to keep adding replay value.
Okay, got that outta my system...


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:09 pm 

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The channel's still up and running, if you can find it and want to bounce ideas off people in realtime.

~~

matejcik neasi wrote:
Marcus, do you count "setting up and keeping up" too? that would be very, very useful


I've never installed forum software on anything before and I don't have the space to run it on, I'm afraid.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:11 am 

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I don't have much to add in terms of coding or stuff like that, but I am a fairly good tester and idea bouncer...

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:56 am 

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Sildar wrote:
I don't have much time to dedicate to Skyrates these days, but I do miss it and I'd like to support this project.

I can provide limited server space and bandwidth (not colocated - sorry west-coasters and other far away people). I have a few different host and virtualization options which I use personally, and I can stand up other options with some flexibility.

I am interested in administrating the servers as my professional expertise lies in that area, but I'm not sure I can commit to that at this time.

A better option may be to purchase server space. If so, I'm willing to contribute financially.

:gonk:


We should talk; I'll be hosting it and could use someone on ops :P


Kharmoria wrote:
Blast! Too bad I missed the IRC, and I know this should probably go in a suggestion thread or some such, but I feel this needs to be expressed. If there are actually rounds (which I'm against) after every round you should get certain bonuses in the next round based on achievements in the previous round/rounds. Such as, trade a certain amount and get bonus starting cash, have certain planes and get parts in the next round. Not things that are ranked, but something everyone can get. This would improve the odds of people actually wanting to start over since it gets a bit different with the next play through. This could be based on an achievement system a-la X-Box 360 with prizes instead of points, and this adds more that can be added to later to keep adding replay value.
Okay, got that outta my system...


Rounds are questionable right now; there are points for and against. As far as this suggestion goes, it's definitely something that increases engagement and retention, but tends to be (obviously) biased against newbies, vis-à-vis not getting starting boosts that veterans get. Fundamentally, if there are rounds, the purpose is to make it fair to all that climbing to the top is not a function of time spent (well, beyond learning the systems).

That being said, it's moderate-able by lessening the bonuses granted or making them mostly cosmetic. Or, actually, in a super-interesting turnabout, I think granting subsequent-round bonuses away from what you accomplish may be really interesting — if you are a combat legend, giving you trade bonuses, and vice versa, to start. This pushes players towards broadening horizons, which I think is equally good without superpowering them at something they're already good at.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:01 pm 

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Talon Karrde wrote:
Or, actually, in a super-interesting turnabout, I think granting subsequent-round bonuses away from what you accomplish may be really interesting — if you are a combat legend, giving you trade bonuses, and vice versa, to start. This pushes players towards broadening horizons, which I think is equally good without superpowering them at something they're already good at.


I dunno, that might turn people off if they really want to go all-out with combat... and what if they go for a jack-of-all-trades approach to begin with? A lesser bonus in all areas on the next round?

Another option could be to have everything accumulate some sort of bonus points you can spend as you wish on the next round. The trick will be balancing it out so one area isn't too good at getting those points... hm.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:35 am 
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Yes, some people quit because a reset erased all their progress. But lots more people quit because there's nothing interesting to do in the endgame. And since the only real way to add content to this game is by changing the game balance, a reset is the only fair way to handle it. Making all the players exactly equal is the whole point of having rounds. Allowing anything (non-cosmetic) to carry over would defeat the purpose of the reset and divide players into oldies who got the unbalanced items and newbies who can never get them (like the prizes for the 2009 Christmas combats, which I'm still angry about).

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:07 pm 

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Kalin wrote:
Yes, some people quit because a reset erased all their progress. But lots more people quit because there's nothing interesting to do in the endgame. And since the only real way to add content to this game is by changing the game balance, a reset is the only fair way to handle it. Making all the players exactly equal is the whole point of having rounds. Allowing anything (non-cosmetic) to carry over would defeat the purpose of the reset and divide players into oldies who got the unbalanced items and newbies who can never get them (like the prizes for the 2009 Christmas combats, which I'm still angry about).


Well, actually, there's a lot of pie-in-the-sky ideas for endgames. Cooperative RPG combat elements. Profit-sharing enterprises. Factory manufacturing wars. Influence weaving through all of these. End game 'bosses' and 'raids'. More PvP and PvE options. Etc, etc, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Meeting! Sunday Sept 11, 3pm central time. I know its a little last minute, but it turns out to work best for stuff like my real life girlfriend and other scheduling concerns. Same IRC chatroom.

If you can't make it, it is not a problem. I read this thread, and all the emails I get sent. :) And there will be many, many more meetings!

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:53 pm 
July 4th 2010

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Apologies for not being able to contribute much, guys...
Yes, you may kill me for playing world of warcraft at the time and being in a dungeon. x_x

Code:
[2011-09-11 14:52:42] -->| Ellington (~chatzilla@c-98-201-95-232.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 14:54:10] <Ellington> lo guys
[2011-09-11 14:54:27] <Austin_J> Oh, hey!
[2011-09-11 14:55:54] <Talon> you're early
[2011-09-11 14:56:05] <Ellington> yerp
[2011-09-11 14:56:51] <Talon> you have an agenda this time? :
[2011-09-11 14:56:53] <Talon> :P
[2011-09-11 14:56:59] <matejcik> oh, hi ell
[2011-09-11 14:57:28] =-= Mode #fauxrates +o Ellington by ChanServ
[2011-09-11 14:58:12] <Ellington> an agenda... for world domination!
[2011-09-11 14:58:20] <Talon> go on, i'm listening
[2011-09-11 14:59:47] <Ellington> step 1. underpants
[2011-09-11 15:00:37] <Talon> ugh, underpants
[2011-09-11 15:01:40] <matejcik> what's wrong with underpants?
[2011-09-11 15:02:24] <Kario_> Sometimes they suck in hot weather.
[2011-09-11 15:02:26] * Kario_ sagenod.
[2011-09-11 15:02:33] =-= Kario_ is now known as Kario
[2011-09-11 15:04:04] <Talon> now that striptease is ended, i need a new webcomic
[2011-09-11 15:04:05] <Talon> suggestions?
[2011-09-11 15:04:26] <Talon> i read xkcd, gunnerkrigg, dead winter, surviving the world, and penny arcade
[2011-09-11 15:04:38] <Kario> Fans!
[2011-09-11 15:04:40] <Talon> also dresden codak, but that doesn't really count
[2011-09-11 15:04:43] <Kario> I can't recommend that webcomic enough.
[2011-09-11 15:04:50] <Kario> http://www.faans.com
[2011-09-11 15:06:16] <Ellington> questionable content, goblins, oots, licd
[2011-09-11 15:06:32] <Ellington> shortpacked
[2011-09-11 15:07:11] <Mahmoth> Rice Boy, Dice Box, Other People's Business, Skin Horse.
[2011-09-11 15:08:21] <Ellington> girls with slingshots, saturday morning breakfast cereal
[2011-09-11 15:08:34] <Ellington> something positive
[2011-09-11 15:09:18] <Austin_J> Schlock Mercenary?
[2011-09-11 15:10:07] <matejcik> ^
[2011-09-11 15:10:17] <matejcik> and Erfworld and Order of the Stick
[2011-09-11 15:10:29] <TommyC> wah
[2011-09-11 15:10:33] <Mahmoth> Yellow Peril, Sailor Twain.
[2011-09-11 15:10:39] <TommyC> I nearly overslept.
[2011-09-11 15:11:01] <Talon> gasptommeh!
[2011-09-11 15:11:26] <matejcik> i had this public feed of my webcomic subscriptions...
[2011-09-11 15:23:01] <Ellington> question: I know we want to monetize and such. Do we want a membership for a month and or a year and or life, etc... or just donate/buy titles/ perks?
[2011-09-11 15:23:22] <Mahmoth> The latter, I'd say.
[2011-09-11 15:26:20] <TommyC> ^
[2011-09-11 15:26:36] -->| Tod (43ab1c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.171.28.102) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 15:27:49] <Kario> Agreed.
[2011-09-11 15:28:15] <Burrito_Loco> freemium!
[2011-09-11 15:28:24] <Burrito_Loco> with that I depart
[2011-09-11 15:28:37] <matejcik> i'd like to go on record saying that while monetization is indeed nice, and it's probably a good thing to think about it in advance, i feel that this kind of talk is massively premature
[2011-09-11 15:29:51] <Ellington> I know. but i'm an optimist
[2011-09-11 15:32:05] <Ellington> I sorta like the membership thing... we can sort the more premium things into it... but i'm ok with freenium
[2011-09-11 15:32:31] <matejcik> well, not to dampen your optimism .e) but as to what "we" want, i want to build a game that i'd want to play.
[2011-09-11 15:32:40] <matejcik> i'd sure like to get paid for it, because who wouldn't, but it's not the primary goal. and i feel that it's a good thing that it isn't a primary goal
[2011-09-11 15:33:42] <matejcik> ...with that said and on record, i too lean towards freemium model
[2011-09-11 15:33:49] <Ellington> I know. :) I am VASTLY comforted that i've had 3 offers of financial support
[2011-09-11 15:35:43] -->| Marcus_Cunningha (~Marcus_Cu@pool-108-5-74-43.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 15:36:12] <Marcus_Cunningha> Greets
[2011-09-11 15:37:37] <Ellington> and salutations
[2011-09-11 15:38:10] <TommyC> celverham
[2011-09-11 15:38:19] <Ellington> celeryham
[2011-09-11 15:38:21] <TommyC> clever, even
[2011-09-11 15:38:26] <TommyC> :<
[2011-09-11 15:38:37] <Marcus_Cunningha> The one and only
[2011-09-11 15:40:06] <Austin_J> No, he's Marcus_Cunningha. Clearly an impostor
[2011-09-11 15:40:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> Damn, they've found out.
[2011-09-11 15:40:25] <Ellington> beat him!
[2011-09-11 15:40:26] =-= Marcus_Cunningha is now known as MarcusCunningham
[2011-09-11 15:40:29] <Austin_J> Also, Tommy, thumbs-up on your Dauntless' name!
[2011-09-11 15:40:32] <MarcusCunningham> There, the disguise is now perfect
[2011-09-11 15:40:44] <TommyC> ...lolwut
[2011-09-11 15:40:52] =-= MarcusCunningham is now known as Marcus_Cunningha
[2011-09-11 15:42:23] <Ellington> skyrates has some good writery-types :D
[2011-09-11 15:43:00] * Austin_J hopes you're including him in that
[2011-09-11 15:43:09] <Ellington> i am
[2011-09-11 15:43:45] <Ellington> fortunatley for me, the proposals settle into two pretty distinct types
[2011-09-11 15:44:00] <matejcik> oooh, the proposals!
[2011-09-11 15:47:46] <Marcus_Cunningha> The suspense is killing me ;)
[2011-09-11 15:48:14] <matejcik> the proposals settle into two pretty distinct types:
[2011-09-11 15:48:20] <matejcik> 1. same as skyrates and
[2011-09-11 15:48:25] <matejcik> 2. different from skyrates
[2011-09-11 15:48:39] <Marcus_Cunningha> That's pretty day and night there ;)
[2011-09-11 15:48:43] <TommyC> :x
[2011-09-11 15:51:43] <Austin_J> Meeting in: T minus ten minutes
[2011-09-11 15:52:05] <Mahmoth> Voop voop voop
[2011-09-11 15:54:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> Thank you dr. Zoidberg
[2011-09-11 15:55:03] <TommyC> bird of Magnus is my name, washing my face to stay awake
[2011-09-11 15:57:03] <Austin_J> T minus 5 minutes
[2011-09-11 15:57:43] <matejcik> initiating prelaunch checks
[2011-09-11 15:59:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> Red Two, standing by
[2011-09-11 15:59:40] <Austin_J> Was that Wedge?
[2011-09-11 16:00:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> Yep
[2011-09-11 16:00:27] <Sapheta> Oh jeez, forgot the meeting was today!
[2011-09-11 16:00:31] <Ellington> hello loyal fauxrates!
[2011-09-11 16:00:36] * Austin_J gets +1 Star Wars Trivia Point
[2011-09-11 16:00:42] <Sapheta> As usual, I'll log it. I'll also pop in every now and then.
[2011-09-11 16:01:49] <Ellington> hope everybody is doing well.
[2011-09-11 16:02:14] <Walther_Walrus> Wow, I woke back up with exquisite timing.
[2011-09-11 16:03:04] <Ellington> first thing! The Setting!
[2011-09-11 16:03:31] <Ellington> I've had basically two proposal types: Earth or Near-Earth post apocalyptic
[2011-09-11 16:04:31] <Ellington> Second: Basically skyrates. This subdivides to All Skylands or one+ hunks of big land and skylands
[2011-09-11 16:05:36] <matejcik> post-apo as in lots of irradiated land instead of sea?
[2011-09-11 16:05:57] <Marcus_Cunningha> Could be irradiated waterways too
[2011-09-11 16:06:09] <Marcus_Cunningha> Though it sounds a bit too much like Falloutrates to me.
[2011-09-11 16:06:13] <matejcik> haha
[2011-09-11 16:06:16] <Marcus`Langley> sea works better, or else people probably start {static} about how radiation doesn't work that way or something. plus everyone loves boats.
[2011-09-11 16:07:06] <Marcus_Cunningha> Suddenly we'd have an entire playerbase of PhD's in radiology
[2011-09-11 16:07:06] <Marcus_Cunningha> ;)
[2011-09-11 16:07:18] <Walther_Walrus> "My character is {static} enough to travel the wastes!  Look, I have /two/ hanzo steel antiradiation katanas!"
[2011-09-11 16:07:26] <Austin_J> I've already put in my submission. And it's not Falloutrates.
[2011-09-11 16:07:32] <Ellington> mmmm, antiradiation machine guns
[2011-09-11 16:07:33] <Marcus`Langley> Well, pull it off properly and we'll get glowing reviews.
[2011-09-11 16:07:40] <Marcus_Cunningha> My vote goes for Skyrates based
[2011-09-11 16:07:41] <matejcik> Austin_J: so it is "basically skyrates"
[2011-09-11 16:07:52] <Austin_J> Without the floating islands, yes.
[2011-09-11 16:08:08] <Kario> They're just islands.
[2011-09-11 16:08:13] <Marcus_Cunningha> Why not include the skylands?
[2011-09-11 16:08:37] <Kario> One less Physics problem to answer?
[2011-09-11 16:08:58] <Marcus_Cunningha> True, we're all walking animals. One hyperscience issue is enough, right.
[2011-09-11 16:09:01] <Ellington> my personal taste is to not set it on earth at all
[2011-09-11 16:09:08] <Walther_Walrus> The Skyrates devs don't hold any kind of copyright on unobtanium.
[2011-09-11 16:09:10] <Ellington> for various reasons
[2011-09-11 16:09:15] <matejcik> (Pandora lives!)
[2011-09-11 16:09:22] <Marcus_Cunningha> Walther, they can't copyright it.
[2011-09-11 16:09:26] <Mahmoth> Someplace earthesque, but not earth.
[2011-09-11 16:09:39] <Walther_Walrus> Yes, I know.
[2011-09-11 16:10:13] <Walther_Walrus> Since unobtanium has been a sci-fi and engineering joke since time immemorial.
[2011-09-11 16:10:22] <Marcus_Cunningha> World War II :)
[2011-09-11 16:10:28] <Austin_J> But a video game world of floating islands with anthropomorphic animal pilots is something that can be considered an IP violation. Points of similarity and all that.
[2011-09-11 16:10:28] <Marcus_Cunningha> Though, we can split hares later
[2011-09-11 16:10:55] <Ellington> AJ- violation of tail spin
[2011-09-11 16:11:10] <Austin_J> Hehehe
[2011-09-11 16:11:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> True, but if we change "Land that floats on air" to "Land that floats on water" is that enough of a filing of the serial numbers to get away with it?
[2011-09-11 16:12:24] <Walther_Walrus> If you have access to water shipping, whole classes of 'newbie goods' go by large, boring, slow ship.
[2011-09-11 16:12:36] <Kario> This is part of why I was hoping to get Fex in here, but I'm pretty sure that the general concept is too broad to give us grief over.
[2011-09-11 16:14:15] <matejcik> Walther: "large, boring, slow" and dirt cheap
[2011-09-11 16:15:19] <Austin_J> Yeah, the obvious response to that is to change what "newbie goods" are.
[2011-09-11 16:15:30] <Marcus_Cunningha> If airborn cargo is your only option, they have to be pretty cheap sometimes too
[2011-09-11 16:16:20] <Tod> what if instead of water, you're dealing with land that's difficult or impractical to cross, so you need airborn cargo?
[2011-09-11 16:16:22] <Marcus_Cunningha> Newbie goods should be the essentials. Supplies, Food and Water, Cloth, and some form of fuel
[2011-09-11 16:16:39] <Marcus_Cunningha> Like, for instance, coal
[2011-09-11 16:16:40] <Austin_J> In my proposal, the setting is a section of ocean that is isolated from surface travel from the outside world by a continual storm system, which also makes surface travel in the interior region unreliable. Hence, aircraft.
[2011-09-11 16:17:00] <Talon> mmm storm systems
[2011-09-11 16:17:01] <Ellington> so... whats the consensus here? Skyrates or near-earth? Mostly sky or mostly land? (I reserve the right to make the final decision... :D )
[2011-09-11 16:17:02] <matejcik> Austin_J: how do you allow airplanes through the storm?
[2011-09-11 16:17:09] <Austin_J> They fly over it, of course.
[2011-09-11 16:17:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> How about a system of both?
[2011-09-11 16:17:25] <matejcik> so i take it the storm system just blocks paths somewhere "out there" and islands have clear skies?
[2011-09-11 16:17:29] * Sapheta suppresses urge to make a joke suggestion.
[2011-09-11 16:17:31] <Austin_J> Ell, what do you mean by "skyrates or near-earth"?
[2011-09-11 16:17:59] <Austin_J> mat: Yeah, for game purposes, the bad weather never affects your flight routes between islands.
[2011-09-11 16:18:01] <Kario> I'm not sure storm system is enough on its own, but rough waters are easily explainable and could make shipping largely impractical.
[2011-09-11 16:18:03] <Marcus_Cunningha> a world with a surface, some cities, and then *Something terrible* over there, that makes the ground either impossible to pass through, or what not, so the cities there took to the skies.
[2011-09-11 16:18:06] <Kario> See also: reefs.
[2011-09-11 16:18:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> Perhaps the remenants of an atomic war have left the land uninhabitable
[2011-09-11 16:18:38] <Marcus_Cunningha> So to survive, the cities put domes up, attached huge fans or Anti-grav rings, and went up over the atomic dust cloud
[2011-09-11 16:18:44] <Walther_Walrus> A WWII era bulker moves at about 17 kph.  The 'fast' fleet oilers the US commissioned in WWII managed 30 kph.  Just as reference to anyone with starry eyes for boat playability.
[2011-09-11 16:19:12] <Talon> the maelstrom a la wow
[2011-09-11 16:19:40] <Marcus_Cunningha> @Talon: Another leftover from the war ;)
[2011-09-11 16:19:42] <Austin_J> I'll be honest: I really like the idea that the players are helping colonize a new corner of the world, both for a "frontier" feel to things, and because it works well with the economic sub-game some of us have been tossing about.
[2011-09-11 16:20:08] <Walther_Walrus> This {static} meeting snuck up on me, I didn't get my proposal finished.  Spent too much of this week muzzing through actual work or asleep.
[2011-09-11 16:20:12] <matejcik> so wait. do the proposal limit airplane tech to what's the limit now, or do we get sci-fi antigrav floaters?
[2011-09-11 16:20:37] <Marcus_Cunningha> How do you think an Ingersol can justify carrying all those crates of cargo?
[2011-09-11 16:20:49] <Marcus_Cunningha> Ingersols had glove boxes, and storage under the seat.
[2011-09-11 16:21:10] <TommyC> :x
[2011-09-11 16:21:25] <Marcus_Cunningha> Also, a lot of the super tech might have been lost in said prior war.
[2011-09-11 16:22:03] <matejcik> okay i believe you .e)
[2011-09-11 16:22:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> Or folks are hesitant to rebuild it, from all the destruction it caused last time. "Ain't no one seen plans for a Dreadnought since the Reckoning, and I reckon myself that no one ain't in no hurry to build one 'gain."
[2011-09-11 16:22:37] <matejcik> next question: what's the difference between "skyrates" and "near-earth"?
[2011-09-11 16:22:39] <Talon> oh, man, i'd be like, aint no one seen a dreadnought, but {static} if i'm not gonna rule th eworld with the first
[2011-09-11 16:22:59] <Marcus_Cunningha> That's how mobs with pitchforks start, Tal.
[2011-09-11 16:23:27] <Walther_Walrus> Give em a 12" shell, that'll improve their attitude, re: you.
[2011-09-11 16:23:48] * matejcik likes what Marcus C is proposing
[2011-09-11 16:23:54] * matejcik also remembers Naausica
[2011-09-11 16:23:58] <Ellington> matej- near earth is... 80% land?
[2011-09-11 16:24:09] <matejcik> (Nausicaä even)
[2011-09-11 16:24:16] * Marcus_Cunningha *also* remembers Naausica..... and also likes what Marcus C is proposing
[2011-09-11 16:24:22] <Ellington> near-skyrates would be more.. 10-50 % land
[2011-09-11 16:24:35] <matejcik> so, the dividing question is amount of sea?
[2011-09-11 16:24:43] * Austin_J does not like the post-apocalypse idea. Not 1940s
[2011-09-11 16:24:49] <Austin_J> "age of progress" enough
[2011-09-11 16:24:51] <matejcik> um, as long as the land in question is impassable anyway, is that the right dividing question?
[2011-09-11 16:25:33] * matejcik personally couldn't care less whether the impassable barrier is solid or liquid
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[2011-09-11 16:25:55] <Walther_Walrus> I did a whole series of calculations on appropriate land area over a planet the size of the earth.
[2011-09-11 16:26:13] <Marcus_Cunningha> What were your findings?
[2011-09-11 16:26:14] <matejcik> Walther_Walrus: based on what?
[2011-09-11 16:26:18] <Mahmoth> If we go "Mostly land"  then one way of pulling it may be to have a desert continent, where travel outside some small microclimates is entirely inhospitable, so most of humanity lives in small valleys.
[2011-09-11 16:26:43] <Austin_J> Airplanes + desertpunk?
[2011-09-11 16:27:16] <Walther_Walrus> Global percentage of arable land, a world population about the size of the US' in 1940, and room for wild frontiers.
[2011-09-11 16:28:08] <Walther_Walrus> Wild frontiers and the land-intensive extraction industries that keep an industrial economy an industrial economy.
[2011-09-11 16:28:08] <Marcus`Langley> the sand might neatly explain heavily limited plane ranges; spend too long up there and the engine chokes.
[2011-09-11 16:28:26] <Marcus_Cunningha> Smaller gas cans do the same :)
[2011-09-11 16:28:57] <Kario> Deserts provide a neat explanation.
[2011-09-11 16:29:02] <Kario> Smaller gas cans just feel like writer fiat.
[2011-09-11 16:29:20] <Austin_J> Desert = Wild West = frontier. I can get behind this.
[2011-09-11 16:29:27] <Marcus_Cunningha> Heh, anything we come up with to limit the newbies can feel like writer's fiat
[2011-09-11 16:30:04] <Ellington> gas is heavy
[2011-09-11 16:30:10] <Walther_Walrus> If gas is affordable to newbies, its trivial to someone with wealth like the person at the top of the trade board to make a plane out of gas and explore as far as he {static} well pleases
[2011-09-11 16:30:16] <Ellington> its a major limitation in the real world
[2011-09-11 16:30:32] <Austin_J> Ellington is pilot, he knows what he's talking about.
[2011-09-11 16:30:42] <matejcik> major limitation for newbies is that engines they can afford are gas-guzzling pieces of {static}
[2011-09-11 16:30:45] <Marcus_Cunningha> True but if dust is what clogs the engine, how long until someone invents "Dust Screen" technology
[2011-09-11 16:31:16] <Kario> Mm.
[2011-09-11 16:31:17] <Ellington> basically.... anything we come up with could be countered somehow, even if just by 'magic'
[2011-09-11 16:31:47] <Marcus_Cunningha> The best way to limit where you were allowed to go was handled nicely by the original devs with the Licensing
[2011-09-11 16:32:05] <Kario> This is sort of why I'm into the colonies idea.  It doesn't explain the whole world, just the focus of the game, and gives a reason for WHY the game is only focused in this one area of the world.
[2011-09-11 16:32:06] <Marcus_Cunningha> You just flat out aren't allowed to land at X Airstrip until you get the authority
[2011-09-11 16:32:36] <Walther_Walrus> The surface of the earth is 29.9% land.  I figured 3.7% land necessary to give a 1940USA population room to eventually quadruple.
[2011-09-11 16:33:13] <Walther_Walrus> 1940US population was selected as a nice number with lots of available statistics that would be able to maintain an industrial economy.
[2011-09-11 16:33:51] <Marcus_Cunningha> Which means there's either about 25% of the surface of the world is desert terrain, uninhabitable, or covered with a strange plant that eats people. May or may not sing.
[2011-09-11 16:34:03] <Marcus_Cunningha> Or a ton of ocean
[2011-09-11 16:35:16] <matejcik> i am now officially thinking about implementing "themeable world" where you can pick your setting without altering game mechanics
[2011-09-11 16:35:30] <matejcik> because all of the proposals are too awesome to pass up
[2011-09-11 16:35:38] <Marcus_Cunningha> Unlikely. Imagine two people from different themes meeting in the same bar.
[2011-09-11 16:35:47] <Austin_J> And quadruple the art team's load.
[2011-09-11 16:35:52] <Marcus_Cunningha> "Them killer people plants are vicious"... "What the {static} are you talking about?!"
[2011-09-11 16:36:16] <matejcik> yeah, yeah. there would have to be a setting-translator engine for RP :e))
[2011-09-11 16:36:17] * Kario snickers.
[2011-09-11 16:36:25] <Ellington> heh... yeah, as awesome as settings are.. one is probably best
[2011-09-11 16:36:29] <Kario> I think the art team would kill you, and that's probably reason enough to leave it be.
[2011-09-11 16:36:31] <Marcus_Cunningha> And if we go with a "Radioactive wasteland" theme, SOMEONE will walk in in full Brotherhood of Steel armor
[2011-09-11 16:37:08] <Ellington> we already had our Bushido
[2011-09-11 16:37:18] <matejcik> nah, the art team would just do whichever they like best, so each of the settings would remain incomplete forever
[2011-09-11 16:37:44] * matejcik goes back to being serious
[2011-09-11 16:37:54] <Ellington> this seems so split between desert and ocean... argh!
[2011-09-11 16:38:14] <Marcus_Cunningha> Compromise.
[2011-09-11 16:38:21] <Marcus_Cunningha> A desert nation, surrounded by ocean
[2011-09-11 16:38:41] <Ellington> several desert islands?
[2011-09-11 16:38:51] <Marcus_Cunningha> Once the players get to the coast, they discover a whole new world out there. Island nations, airborne cities, boats big enough to count as islands on their own
[2011-09-11 16:39:07] <Marcus_Cunningha> Shattered worlds, remenants of a war long forgotten. Ancient ruins, sunken cities
[2011-09-11 16:39:08] <Mahmoth> Yessss
[2011-09-11 16:39:15] <Kario> Hmmmmmm.
[2011-09-11 16:39:22] <Ellington> ok. Anybody opposed?
[2011-09-11 16:39:28] <Austin_J> Opposed to what?
[2011-09-11 16:39:30] <TommyC> seaplanes @ higher tiers lol
[2011-09-11 16:39:31] <Marcus_Cunningha> The remains of a ruined country, the entire continent blasted by war and doom. ;)
[2011-09-11 16:39:34] * Marcus_Cunningha shuts up
[2011-09-11 16:39:35] * Ellington voted for that.... with his pants!
[2011-09-11 16:39:51] * Mahmoth , being said pants, concurs.
[2011-09-11 16:39:57] <Kario> That is such a frightening thought that I do not think I can do it justice by mocking it.
[2011-09-11 16:39:57] <Marcus_Cunningha> @Tommy: Sure
[2011-09-11 16:39:57] <Kario> So is that.
[2011-09-11 16:40:01] <Kario> Ahem.
[2011-09-11 16:40:10] <Tod> sounds like  fun sort of thing to draw
[2011-09-11 16:40:12] <Kario> I think we have to be careful not to go crazy with TOO many cool things in the world.
[2011-09-11 16:40:17] <Kario> But I agree with the basic concept.
[2011-09-11 16:40:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> Bah, no such monster
[2011-09-11 16:40:25] <Walther_Walrus> I had a little bit written up about seismic weapons playing a leettle {static} on the planet's surface about 400 years prior, involving about 7/8ths of the planet's land sliding into the ocean, thousand-foot tsunamis, that sort of thing.  Final layout is about 500 scattered major islands that jut out of the ocean suddenly on cliffs and overhangs over a thousand feet high, ranging in size from
[2011-09-11 16:40:25] <Walther_Walrus> about the big island of hawaii (10,000 sq km) to to about the size of Vermont and NH (50k) together and averaging about the size of Maryland(30k).
[2011-09-11 16:40:51] <Ellington> I am very very much in favor of this desert mainland... with a biger 'flight liscense' world surrounding it
[2011-09-11 16:40:54] <Walther_Walrus> Open islands as the game population grows, figured 16 to start beta 1.
[2011-09-11 16:41:25] <Austin_J> Firefly-style smuggler-cowboys in flight?
[2011-09-11 16:41:33] <Ellington> :D
[2011-09-11 16:41:59] <Marcus_Cunningha> Essentially, the 'Desert Country' could be the 'winners' of the old war. They survived, at the cost of the land becoming a wasteland. They need resources to live day to day. Once the players get out of the basics, and explore, they see verdant lands around them, fiercely guarded and such. They may explore ruins for treasures to sell for cash or upgrades, explore old war ruins, and piece together some lost history.
[2011-09-11 16:42:08] <Marcus_Cunningha> All while clicking back and forth between Red and Purple :)
[2011-09-11 16:42:34] <Marcus_Cunningha> I figured I'd re-word my verbose and multi-lined proposal into something more verbose and multi-lined
[2011-09-11 16:43:06] <Marcus_Cunningha> And once they're out of the starting core land, perhaps that's where they encounter the Factions :)
[2011-09-11 16:43:38] <Austin_J> I still kind of want an untamed, almost untouched land.
[2011-09-11 16:43:54] <Kario> I see some holes in that.
[2011-09-11 16:44:06] <Kario> But if we have a setting, the writing team can spin it into plausible reality.
[2011-09-11 16:44:11] <Kario> Whatever the setting is.
[2011-09-11 16:44:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> I can see an untouched land. I can see a peaceful land of green and lush wonderness.
[2011-09-11 16:44:29] <Marcus_Cunningha> I can also see that land being brutally invaded, since they'd never see it coming.
[2011-09-11 16:44:55] <Austin_J> The further-out locations have little more than a WWII field airbase and a few hardy settlers, that sort of thing.
[2011-09-11 16:45:12] <Mahmoth> ({static} pacifist deer.  They got what was coming to them!)
[2011-09-11 16:45:15] <matejcik> ...unless they did, in which case they'd be probably well prepared to defend the untamedness
[2011-09-11 16:45:34] <Marcus_Cunningha> "These are defensive coil guns. Honest."
[2011-09-11 16:45:46] <Austin_J> While the core has actually been settled for a few decades.
[2011-09-11 16:46:06] <Kario> If we're doing this isolated pocket, we'll have to go for more than a few decades.
[2011-09-11 16:46:08] <Ellington> I think i've settled for Marcus' desert + idea :D
[2011-09-11 16:46:22] <TommyC> yay
[2011-09-11 16:46:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods*
[2011-09-11 16:46:52] <matejcik> very well.
[2011-09-11 16:46:59] <Walther_Walrus> Our little corner of the 'verse for Beta 1 is an area of about sixteen or so major islands, centered on one that happened to have a city sitting on it with a bit of land in cultivation when the hammer dropped.  Before the self-induced apocalypse, it was a city of about 76,000 souls.  Afterwards, there were about 11,000 and a lot of dead technology.  Modern day, there's about four and a
[2011-09-11 16:47:00] <Walther_Walrus> quarter million, mostly centered on the original city but moved out some to the surrounding skylands to farm and find resources.  The cataclysm knocked the technology level back to early 1800s.  Technology has been advancing at about 1/3 speed due to the low population.  Flight returned about 100 years ago and has been pretty primitive for most of that.  Our players enter a world where real
[2011-09-11 16:47:00] <Walther_Walrus> long-range flight has only recently become practical, leading to a new boom as explorers fan out to chart and exploit the remnants of the world.
[2011-09-11 16:47:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> @Mat: There may be pockets of unclaimed wilderness. There's something literally JUST like that in what I suggested to Ell some time ago. Ell, you know what I mean, yes?
[2011-09-11 16:48:59] <Ellington> yep
[2011-09-11 16:50:17] <Ellington> anyway. we got a basics... the writery types can fight to the death (with knives!)
[2011-09-11 16:50:44] * Walther_Walrus brings a gun.
[2011-09-11 16:50:53] <matejcik> with pens. for pen is mightier than the sword.
[2011-09-11 16:51:07] <Walther_Walrus> Is it mightier than the gun?
[2011-09-11 16:51:13] * Mahmoth headbutts everyone  from behind.
[2011-09-11 16:51:32] <Ellington> And no, we cant name it Sandrates
[2011-09-11 16:51:44] <Walther_Walrus> Aaagh spymammoth from behind!
[2011-09-11 16:51:46] <Mahmoth> Sandrats?
[2011-09-11 16:52:02] <Kario> Names can also come later.
[2011-09-11 16:52:22] <Mahmoth> (That forehead is a spah!)
[2011-09-11 16:53:19] <Marcus_Cunningha> For the time being, let's give it the prototype name "Tales of Adventure" and move on
[2011-09-11 16:53:23] <Marcus_Cunningha> This way we have SOMETHING to call it
[2011-09-11 16:53:30] <Walther_Walrus> That last texblock of mine was c&p&summarized from the design document I put together that Ell doesn't have because I woke up about thirty seconds before the meeting started.
[2011-09-11 16:53:41] <Walther_Walrus> We already have something to call it; Fauxrates.
[2011-09-11 16:53:56] <Marcus_Cunningha> True
[2011-09-11 16:54:38] <Ellington> Sandrock :D
[2011-09-11 16:54:50] <TommyC> Desert Plus.
[2011-09-11 16:55:12] <TommyC> Sandrock makes me think of gundam
[2011-09-11 16:55:21] <TommyC> :D
[2011-09-11 16:55:26] <Mahmoth> Skyrates on Ice 3D
[2011-09-11 16:55:27] <Austin_J> Gundam Wing, right?
[2011-09-11 16:55:27] <Ellington> ok.. do we want factions/something that mimics factions in some way?
[2011-09-11 16:55:33] <matejcik> yes.
[2011-09-11 16:55:41] <Austin_J> Indifferent
[2011-09-11 16:55:42] <TommyC> why not
[2011-09-11 16:55:55] <Ellington> yes.
[2011-09-11 16:56:05] <matejcik> although on the other hand, it does depend on specifics of the setting's civilization
[2011-09-11 16:56:05] <Kario> Waiiiiiiiit.
[2011-09-11 16:56:09] <Kario> Wait wait wait.
[2011-09-11 16:56:22] <Talon> from a systems perspective, yes.
[2011-09-11 16:56:42] <Austin_J> Kario, what's up?
[2011-09-11 16:56:53] <Kario> I'm running into compatibility issues between the proposed setting and the economy we're trying to develop in the game.
[2011-09-11 16:57:40] <Marcus_Cunningha> Then reboot the economy?
[2011-09-11 16:57:51] <Marcus_Cunningha> Usually solves most compatability issues
[2011-09-11 16:58:25] <Walther_Walrus> I'm really not satisfied with the discussion so far on setting.
[2011-09-11 16:58:43] <Kario> After thinking about it some more, neither am I.
[2011-09-11 16:58:52] <Kario> MC, I like your idea from a pure aesthetics viewpoint.
[2011-09-11 16:58:57] <Marcus_Cunningha> But...
[2011-09-11 16:59:36] <Kario> But the peculiarities of this setting make it difficult to balance a Skyrates-like game around.
[2011-09-11 16:59:43] <Marcus_Cunningha> Example?
[2011-09-11 17:00:21] <Marcus_Cunningha> Or is this more of a "Why would ten disconnected kingdoms all use coins with the same guy's head on them"?
[2011-09-11 17:00:51] <Kario> What would we be trading in the starting area?  How would we keep it viable throughout the course of the game?  How would markets work for exotic goods being brought in from entirely different locations?
[2011-09-11 17:01:13] <Talon> we should establish some basic principles, actually
[2011-09-11 17:01:18] <Ellington> exotics always sell well
[2011-09-11 17:01:25] <Marcus_Cunningha> Markets for exotic goods being brought in from different locations is actually the definiton of Exotic goods
[2011-09-11 17:01:33] <Talon> which is to say, in skyrates, right, there are some vague conceits towards realism, and then there are completely unreal things
[2011-09-11 17:01:38] <Kario> Right, but how well DO they sell?
[2011-09-11 17:01:41] <Talon> so one of the question is, how 'realistic' does this setting have to be?
[2011-09-11 17:01:45] <Kario> How do they compare to established goods?
[2011-09-11 17:01:53] <Marcus_Cunningha> What would we be trading in the core area: The basics. Someplace needs wood, but has water. Other place has water, needs wood.
[2011-09-11 17:01:57] <Kario> How do they not completely overshadow prior trading?
[2011-09-11 17:02:03] <Ellington> water and wood will always be trade goods in a desert
[2011-09-11 17:02:15] <Ellington> cloth. persavable food
[2011-09-11 17:02:21] <Austin_J> And a world linked by planes needs oil.
[2011-09-11 17:02:22] <Kario> The further we deviate from a Skyrates-like setting, the more of these questions we have to answer.
[2011-09-11 17:02:34] <Kario> Note that I'm okay with deviation, but that means these questions need answering.
[2011-09-11 17:02:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> But you're asking for how well something will sell, when we haven't even established the goods that can be sold yet.
[2011-09-11 17:03:10] <Talon> hmm
[2011-09-11 17:03:14] <Talon> I motion to table the discussion and vote.
[2011-09-11 17:03:28] <Austin_J> Vote on what?
[2011-09-11 17:03:28] <matejcik> vote on?
[2011-09-11 17:03:34] <Talon> whether we want this setting, of course
[2011-09-11 17:03:44] <Talon> at least see if we have a broad consensus
[2011-09-11 17:03:47] <Walther_Walrus> I'm mostly concerned that Austin and Marcus took an idea for a setting and talked over anything else, which is a problem more or less with the format of decision making in an open IRC chat.
[2011-09-11 17:04:10] <Talon> I'm not saying the vote actually is the final word, but i'd like to see if the majority of the people think about/accept this proposed setting
[2011-09-11 17:04:12] <Marcus_Cunningha> I wouldn't consider "Substanciating my position" as talking over everyone else.
[2011-09-11 17:04:16] <Austin_J> I'm more than willing to let others put in their piece.
[2011-09-11 17:04:35] <matejcik> Marcus_Cunningha: except your position basically shifted around the whole time :eP
[2011-09-11 17:04:39] <Kario> I don't think anyone's intending to run away with anything.
[2011-09-11 17:05:02] <Walther_Walrus> I say nothing about intent, only about how the discussion actually ended up playing out.
[2011-09-11 17:05:08] <Talon> again, can we have a conclusive, one line summary about this proposed setting?
[2011-09-11 17:05:08] <Marcus_Cunningha> @Mat: I'm allowed to agree with other peopls suggestions.
[2011-09-11 17:05:57] <Ellington> Desert island starter land, flight lisence expansions of varying island/boat/skylands?
[2011-09-11 17:06:03] -->| alliisara (~Adium@ppp-70-226-174-71.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 17:06:05] <Kario> Can we have several conclusive, one-line summaries about proposed settings, for that matter?
[2011-09-11 17:06:48] <Talon> ^
[2011-09-11 17:06:49] <Ellington> lo Kyra
[2011-09-11 17:06:53] * alliisara pounces and snugs Kario
[2011-09-11 17:07:01] <Austin_J> "An isolated frontier colonized by aircraft" is pretty much the type of setting I want.
[2011-09-11 17:07:04] <alliisara> Hey Ell, Talon. =)
[2011-09-11 17:07:10] * alliisara tackles Ell and sits on him
[2011-09-11 17:07:31] * Kario revises that to "An isolated island frontier."
[2011-09-11 17:07:32] <Ellington> and theres been a few 'earth but not exactly'
[2011-09-11 17:07:32] <Austin_J> Ocean, desert, I don't really care about.
[2011-09-11 17:07:49] * Kario removes his revision.
[2011-09-11 17:08:02] <Talon> right, because it feels like we went from 'well there were proposals' to 'well, let's do this one' and then substantive discussion on that
[2011-09-11 17:08:06] <Austin_J> (Heck my only objection to "sky" is that it might be too close to Skyrates)
[2011-09-11 17:08:07] <Talon> which is good, but i think some framing is in effect
[2011-09-11 17:08:15] <Talon> not just, particularly, the Earth vs. Non-Earth issue
[2011-09-11 17:08:16] <Kario> Okay, but "earth but not exactly" needs a little more framework.
[2011-09-11 17:08:21] <Talon> but beyond that, it seems that everyone is a fan of planes, yes?
[2011-09-11 17:08:28] <Ellington> planes.
[2011-09-11 17:08:31] <matejcik> yes.
[2011-09-11 17:08:34] <Mahmoth> A scattered micronesian island system, traversed by flight under various kinds of power.
[2011-09-11 17:08:39] <Talon> Okay, so we've established that
[2011-09-11 17:08:44] <Marcus_Cunningha> Planes: Yes
[2011-09-11 17:08:52] <alliisara> There should be kits
[2011-09-11 17:08:55] <Kario> So keep in mind that any setting has to justify travel by airplane.
[2011-09-11 17:08:58] <Talon> kyra, shush
[2011-09-11 17:09:01] <alliisara> *realizes this is jumping way too far forward, just wanted to put it out, though*
[2011-09-11 17:09:05] <Ellington> :p
[2011-09-11 17:09:06] <Kario> (Kits are SOOOOOO far beyond the scope of the discussion)
[2011-09-11 17:09:13] <alliisara> XD
[2011-09-11 17:09:17] <alliisara> I loooooved the kits
[2011-09-11 17:09:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> (That, and they were broken in the beginning, they'll be broken in the end)
[2011-09-11 17:09:22] <Talon> With planes, ignoring any semblence of history, are we looking for something that's mostly water or mostly land (presumbly, in some way, inhospitable)??
[2011-09-11 17:09:29] <Walther_Walrus> A series of islands that stick up a long way out of the sea, with several pockets of surviving civilization beginning to expand in earnest into the shattered remnants of the world.
[2011-09-11 17:09:39] <alliisara> Also, we should still have prop planes going Mach 3
[2011-09-11 17:09:43] <alliisara> Because that was kind of awesome
[2011-09-11 17:09:45] <Talon> kkkkkkkkkkkyaaaaaaaa
[2011-09-11 17:09:45] <alliisara> =P
[2011-09-11 17:09:52] <Talon> +r. not helping.
[2011-09-11 17:09:52] * alliisara is being useless, and shuts up
[2011-09-11 17:10:02] <Ellington> I think the proposal for Sandrates has.... 60% water? ish?
[2011-09-11 17:10:07] <Ellington> *huggles kyra*
[2011-09-11 17:10:08] <Marcus_Cunningha> A combination of the two would settle a lot of issues.
[2011-09-11 17:10:13] * alliisara huggles Ell back
[2011-09-11 17:10:19] <matejcik> WHICH TWO
[2011-09-11 17:10:24] <Talon> land/water
[2011-09-11 17:10:26] <matejcik> we have three, not counting sandrates
[2011-09-11 17:10:31] <Marcus_Cunningha> Landmasses, plus some airborne areas to explore.
[2011-09-11 17:10:33] <Talon> What are the water vs. land discussions? Why one over the other? Since we're getting over the setting, this is superimportant now.
[2011-09-11 17:10:42] <Kario> Does anyone HAVE any strong feelings about whether the inhospitable terrain is land or water?
[2011-09-11 17:10:50] <Austin_J> It seems like we have a bit of a divide between "new frontier" and "post-apocalypse" as well
[2011-09-11 17:10:53] <Talon> everyone shoudl have strong feelings
[2011-09-11 17:10:55] <matejcik> Kario: not me.
[2011-09-11 17:10:57] <Talon> because this is deterministic
[2011-09-11 17:11:06] <Kario> People who do should speak up.
[2011-09-11 17:11:09] <Talon> the system doesn't vary underneath, it doesn't matter to the coders
[2011-09-11 17:11:10] <Kario> I shall do so now with a vote for water.
[2011-09-11 17:11:18] <Talon> but if you're worldbulding and doing flavour text, this makes all the difference
[2011-09-11 17:11:27] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon, I say both.
[2011-09-11 17:11:36] <Marcus_Cunningha> Water makes for a good "There's nothing here move along" aspect
[2011-09-11 17:11:47] <Marcus_Cunningha> And {static}, could even have "Sunken" areas to explore later on in the game
[2011-09-11 17:11:49] <Talon> how much land, how much water, is the land merely unsettled, is it completely unhospitable, can it be terriformed or unradiated?
[2011-09-11 17:12:05] <matejcik> that are important questions.
[2011-09-11 17:12:14] <Marcus_Cunningha> Land can be inhospitable merely by being too mountainous to put an airfield
[2011-09-11 17:12:22] <Talon> are there going to be future ways to explore/convert these inhospitable land/sea areas into hospitable ones?
[2011-09-11 17:12:31] <Mahmoth> Hm.
[2011-09-11 17:12:36] <Talon> i'd like to hear some of the people that haven't spoken
[2011-09-11 17:12:38] <Talon> if they're here :p
[2011-09-11 17:12:39] <Ellington> I like a starting desert island/small continent. The first, say, three flight liscenses add a island or three.. a skyland... some ocean... then future ones can add a lot of mystery/ocean/etc
[2011-09-11 17:12:58] <Kario> I'd prefer not to discuss settings in terms of flight licenses.
[2011-09-11 17:13:00] <Talon> Especially the artists, since a lot of this is going to depend on their vision - TommyC, Tod, thoughts?
[2011-09-11 17:13:09] <matejcik> okay ... for whatever reason, i dislike the idea of flight licenses. it doesn't seem to go along with any kind of setting at all
[2011-09-11 17:13:15] <Talon> flight licenses are a systems issue that we should actually talk about :P
[2011-09-11 17:13:16] <Mahmoth> What would people say to a transfer?  Players start out in a small core using ships, land trains, move up to planes as that becomes viable.
[2011-09-11 17:13:19] <TommyC> huh
[2011-09-11 17:13:22] <Ellington> FL is sorta a gameplay kludge
[2011-09-11 17:13:28] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon, a proposal I sent to Ell spoke of a second supercontinent that was essentially destroyed in a previous war, and was responsible for the skylands creation.
[2011-09-11 17:13:33] <Kario> (It's a Skyrates-specific kludge, though)
[2011-09-11 17:13:50] <Ellington> Also, Tal, yes, theres a lot to discuss. can we stay on one topic?
[2011-09-11 17:14:01] <Marcus_Cunningha> The crater left behind could be uninhabitable land
[2011-09-11 17:14:04] <Talon> mhm. should stay on setting
[2011-09-11 17:14:22] <Walther_Walrus> 1/8th as much land as the planet earth.  Broken up into 500 moderately-sized chunks each capable of supporting one large settlement eventually.  Start with however many islands we want, add new ones as the game grows.  Most islands are uninhabited, making a new and strange frontier.
[2011-09-11 17:14:26] <Talon> But I think the artists being behind the vision of the setting is super-important
[2011-09-11 17:14:32] <Talon> much more so than anyone writing canon, honestly
[2011-09-11 17:14:39] <Talon> because 90% of the players won't do anything but look at pretty pictures
[2011-09-11 17:14:43] <Talon> (as it should be)
[2011-09-11 17:14:50] <Marcus_Cunningha> Pictures which are determined by canon
[2011-09-11 17:14:50] <Kario> I will concur with that.
[2011-09-11 17:14:55] <TommyC> you guys lost me few hundred lines ago. So I think I'd wait to see the summaries of each.
[2011-09-11 17:15:01] <Talon> XD
[2011-09-11 17:15:04] <Talon> Summaries, gentlemen?
[2011-09-11 17:15:22] <Talon> One line each, please, and hold any other comments.
[2011-09-11 17:15:38] <Talon> Marcus_Cunningham, you have one, Walther_Walrus, I believe you have another, and Austin_J, I believe you submitted as well?
[2011-09-11 17:15:45] <Austin_J> Yes I did.
[2011-09-11 17:15:49] <Talon> Go ahead, then.
[2011-09-11 17:16:04] <Marcus_Cunningha> Ellington actually commented with mine.
[2011-09-11 17:16:05] <Marcus_Cunningha> Desert island starter land, flight lisence expansions of varying island/boat/skylands
[2011-09-11 17:16:30] <Marcus_Cunningha> Though that was the total concensus
[2011-09-11 17:16:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> Mine was initially just a mix of island base and skyland base
[2011-09-11 17:16:48] <matejcik> Mahmoth said something that looked like a summary ... unless that was a summary someone other's proposal?
[2011-09-11 17:17:12] <Austin_J> "An isolated frontier colonized by aircraft, with an aethetic combination of WWII air forces, Art Deco, and the Wild West."
[2011-09-11 17:17:27] <Austin_J> Er, aesthetic.
[2011-09-11 17:17:37] <Talon> and for Mah's: Players start out in a small core using ships, land trains, move up to planes as that becomes viable.
[2011-09-11 17:17:46] <Mahmoth> Yep.
[2011-09-11 17:18:20] <Walther_Walrus> Did you want me to restate myself, Talon, or have you picked it out of my backlog?
[2011-09-11 17:18:22] <TommyC> In term of the environment, I can imagine MC's idea quite well
[2011-09-11 17:18:26] <Talon> restart
[2011-09-11 17:18:30] <Talon> *restate :p
[2011-09-11 17:18:55] <Kario> "A vibrant oceanic trade hub that traverses established continental nations around the edges, islands rich in natural resources, and competition for economic control of this frontier."
[2011-09-11 17:19:24] <Talon> Austin, when you say frontier, do you have a land/sea preference?
[2011-09-11 17:19:56] <Austin_J> Slight preference for ocean (my original concept was a South Seas archipelago).
[2011-09-11 17:19:59] <Talon> -nods-
[2011-09-11 17:20:15] <Talon> So it doesn't look like anyone's proposing a solid land-only aspect, correct?
[2011-09-11 17:20:15] <Walther_Walrus> A series of islands that stick up a long way out of the sea, with several pockets of surviving civilization beginning to expand in earnest into the shattered remnants of the world.  World-wide 1/8th as much land as the planet earth,  broken up into 500 moderately-sized chunks each capable of supporting one large settlement eventually.  Start with however many islands we want open, add new
[2011-09-11 17:20:16] <Walther_Walrus> ones as the game grows.  Most islands are uninhabited, making a new and strange frontier.
[2011-09-11 17:20:36] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon: I haven't heard a single All-Land proposal as of yet
[2011-09-11 17:21:04] <Walther_Walrus> Aesthetics are un-set, WWII dieselpunk tech.
[2011-09-11 17:21:15] <Talon> I'd like to toss out there, then, the idea of the post-apocalyptic united states that is riddled with nukes that have be fired and thus the map is redrawn. Now that it's tossed out there, I will immediately move on from it.
[2011-09-11 17:21:35] <Marcus_Cunningha> Blah, Falloutrates.
[2011-09-11 17:21:36] <TommyC> the oceanic trade hub thing, does it have anything that especially encourages travel by planes?
[2011-09-11 17:21:42] <Talon> Speed
[2011-09-11 17:21:44] <Kario> ^
[2011-09-11 17:21:47] <Kario> Boats are slow.
[2011-09-11 17:21:52] <Kario> Very, very slow.
[2011-09-11 17:21:59] <TommyC> aside from that
[2011-09-11 17:22:01] <Marcus_Cunningha> Ooooooo....
[2011-09-11 17:22:02] <Ellington> speed, better more direct nav
[2011-09-11 17:22:06] <Austin_J> I'm pretty firmly opposed to post-apocalyptic. I want a setting (or at least a corner of one) where, after the initial setup, the players are creating the region's history.
[2011-09-11 17:22:08] <Marcus_Cunningha> The oceanic trade hub...
[2011-09-11 17:22:17] <Marcus_Cunningha> Could be an aquatic version of the alpha platforms
[2011-09-11 17:22:17] <Mahmoth> Flying OVER intervening islands.
[2011-09-11 17:22:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> An artificial island
[2011-09-11 17:22:27] <Kario> If we're asking about mine, submerged coral reefs COULD make boat travel impossible in certain ports.
[2011-09-11 17:22:38] <Ellington> are we done summarizing?
[2011-09-11 17:22:46] <Talon> it looks like it
[2011-09-11 17:22:51] * Ellington tries to keep this from drifting too far
[2011-09-11 17:22:56] <Walther_Walrus> Mine gets no boats because everyone is on cliffs sticking out of the water a thousand feet or more.
[2011-09-11 17:22:58] <Talon> haven't drifted too far yet
[2011-09-11 17:23:05] <Kario> (For the purposes of discussion, we can refer to Falloutrates as Talon's proposal.  XP )
[2011-09-11 17:23:10] <Talon> (pft)
[2011-09-11 17:23:16] <Talon> looks like we're talking about a primarily island based map, with land masses for added flavour
[2011-09-11 17:23:21] <Talon> Are there boats?
[2011-09-11 17:23:25] <Austin_J> (I used Wild Blue for my proposal email)
[2011-09-11 17:23:27] <Talon> Do players use boats, or just computers?
[2011-09-11 17:23:46] <Walther_Walrus> No boats.
[2011-09-11 17:23:47] <TommyC> ^
[2011-09-11 17:23:50] <Kario> No boats.
[2011-09-11 17:23:51] <matejcik> players use computers. obviously.
[2011-09-11 17:23:58] <Mahmoth> Land trains?
[2011-09-11 17:23:59] * Talon smacks matejcik with the devoice stick.
[2011-09-11 17:24:06] <Austin_J> Reefs and storms preventing reliable ocean travel.
[2011-09-11 17:24:08] <Talon> Do players do anything but fly?
[2011-09-11 17:24:14] <TommyC> ^ too
[2011-09-11 17:24:16] <Ellington> boats, as not being sold to players, wont be a factor in anything, is how i see it
[2011-09-11 17:24:22] <Walther_Walrus> Nothing but fly.
[2011-09-11 17:24:26] <Kario> ^
[2011-09-11 17:24:33] <TommyC> I see
[2011-09-11 17:24:49] <Talon> Okay, so we're talking about planes in an 80% water island archipelago, do we have a consensus?
[2011-09-11 17:24:52] <Mahmoth> Mmm
[2011-09-11 17:25:19] <Walther_Walrus> 80% is not much more than the percentage of water on Earth.
[2011-09-11 17:25:24] <Mahmoth> (Skyrates-On-Sea)
[2011-09-11 17:25:30] <Ellington> well, how many of us like the Marcus C proposal? :P
[2011-09-11 17:25:34] <Austin_J> (SOS, Mah?)
[2011-09-11 17:25:57] <Talon> i mean, the marcus C proposal doesn't sound that different from the walter proposal or the austin proposal
[2011-09-11 17:26:17] <Talon> and good point, walther, more like 95%
[2011-09-11 17:26:21] <Austin_J> Marcus C proposal differs from mine in being more PA, as far as I can tell.
[2011-09-11 17:26:28] <Kario> PA?
[2011-09-11 17:26:31] <Talon> penny arcade?
[2011-09-11 17:26:31] <matejcik> post-apo
[2011-09-11 17:26:33] <TommyC> I like it more at the moment because I can imagine the map quite well
[2011-09-11 17:26:34] <Ellington> skyrates pre-barrens is 99.98% water. ish
[2011-09-11 17:26:35] <Austin_J> Post-apoc, yeah
[2011-09-11 17:27:10] <Talon> well, aside from the map, Tommy
[2011-09-11 17:27:17] <TommyC> but are there things that we'd like to do to the islands in the future? repositioning ala skyrates resets
[2011-09-11 17:27:20] <TommyC> ?
[2011-09-11 17:27:23] <Pendragon> Well how large of play area do we need?
[2011-09-11 17:27:23] <Talon> maye
[2011-09-11 17:27:30] <Talon> what do you envision individual architecture and technology?
[2011-09-11 17:27:57] <Austin_J> I already put mine in for that, Talon. "Art Deco mets WWII air forces meets Wild West"
[2011-09-11 17:28:02] <Talon> right
[2011-09-11 17:28:13] <Talon> it seems like we have a consensus on islands in the sea, yes, with vroom vrooms flying . What caused this? Where did they come from? What ist he technology like?
[2011-09-11 17:28:17] <Ellington> MC's proposal has room for some arabian nights esq stuff too :D
[2011-09-11 17:28:32] <Talon> do all of the islands have different technologies? different cultures?
[2011-09-11 17:28:35] <Talon> how did they come to be?
[2011-09-11 17:28:39] <Marcus_Cunningha> Though, no prop-driven flying carpets
[2011-09-11 17:28:43] <Talon> where are they running from, or how did they get set up?
[2011-09-11 17:28:47] <Ellington> no, thats just silly

Doublepost time. Woo!

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:54 pm 
July 4th 2010

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:27 pm
Posts: 13
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Okay, other half.

Code:
[2011-09-11 17:28:47] <TommyC> emm, Last Exile-ish, steampunk with some fantastic elements
[2011-09-11 17:28:55] <TommyC> 's what I think
[2011-09-11 17:29:01] <Walther_Walrus> I am firmly opposed to any landmass large enough to have multiple trade spots on it.
[2011-09-11 17:29:22] <Talon> why?
[2011-09-11 17:29:28] <Mahmoth> I approve of different cultures and different styles of craft for different areas.
[2011-09-11 17:29:30] <Ellington> so we have a firmly oposed to 'continent' and firmly-ish opposed to 'PA'
[2011-09-11 17:29:52] <Austin_J> In my proposal, stuff is new, raw. The only buildings around are stuff settlers have set up. No natives, although there might be some ancient ruins or something that might be the reason for the previous isolation, and maybe the land-grab too.
[2011-09-11 17:30:01] <matejcik> Walther_Walrus: i actually think such landmass could very well go with your proposal. as long as it's mostly broken with really deep canyons and stuff like that
[2011-09-11 17:30:02] <Talon> how did people get there, austin?
[2011-09-11 17:30:12] <Pendragon> I'm opposed to continents in game, but not opposed to them existing outside of the play area
[2011-09-11 17:30:14] <Kario> blahhhhh, one person answer these questions at a time.
[2011-09-11 17:30:18] <Kario> Austin go first since you already started.
[2011-09-11 17:30:21] * Kario flails.
[2011-09-11 17:31:12] <Austin_J> In my original proposal? An expy of Howard Hughes makes a flying boat, flies over the storm-barrier preventing previous exploration. Cue airplane-powered land rush.
[2011-09-11 17:31:28] <Talon> There are histories that need to be answered from each setting proposed, the exact map of which can be determined later. What are the sociopolitical forces that resulted in people dispersing into islands? Where did they come from?
[2011-09-11 17:31:38] <Talon> Aha -- so, a Lost Atlantis sort of move
[2011-09-11 17:31:49] <Talon> Okey doke. Walter? Marcus?
[2011-09-11 17:31:55] <Walther_Walrus> Talon - Land-based trade is ridiculously more efficient if its available.  Sea-based trade is ridiculously more efficient if /its/ available.  When those modes of transport are available, air travel only takes up the niche of items that need to move quickly.  Irradiated land would actually irradiate everybody because of wind and water runoff.
[2011-09-11 17:32:08] <Talon> fair enough
[2011-09-11 17:32:18] <Talon> Anyone else on histories of people coming to islands?
[2011-09-11 17:32:32] <Walther_Walrus> Hold on, I got something.
[2011-09-11 17:32:35] <Talon> Austin proposes that it's a recent move; are there any suggestions on people having been on islands for ages?
[2011-09-11 17:33:03] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon: Folks of similar mindset or from same prior homeland gathered on islands / skylands. Organizations that existed pre-cataclysm existed afterwards, and grew in size and strength.
[2011-09-11 17:33:15] <Talon> so there's a counter-proposal -- a cataclysm
[2011-09-11 17:33:34] <Talon> catacylsm vs natural exploration beyond known barriers and land grab pros v. cons?
[2011-09-11 17:33:35] <Walther_Walrus> I suggest that we have rare pockets of surviving civilization and vast numbers of islands that have been abandoned for 400 years since the cataclysm.
[2011-09-11 17:34:02] <Talon> what is this cataclysm, and how did it affect technological advances and social structures?
[2011-09-11 17:34:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> The Cataclysm could be the name the survivors gave to the end of the war.
[2011-09-11 17:34:26] <Ellington> i.. sorta dislike the 'wild west everything is built by recent settlers' cause... all those towns, real world, are wood, have three bars, a church/cemetary, and a dry goods store
[2011-09-11 17:35:02] <Austin_J> My big pro for the new frontier is (in addition to the Wild West atmosphere), is that the player's actions are creating the history of this region, barring the maybe two decades of previous development in the core.
[2011-09-11 17:35:04] <Tod> yeah, unless things have been around for a little longer, that kinda limits the 'art deco' part.
[2011-09-11 17:35:36] <Talon> player actions will always create history, though, and current history is generally more meaningful than backstory history
[2011-09-11 17:35:41] <Tod> as a visual style, though... really the only thing I can comment on... I really like the idea of combining those looks.
[2011-09-11 17:35:45] * Kario holds off until others are done expanding.
[2011-09-11 17:35:55] <Talon> go on, Tod
[2011-09-11 17:35:56] <Tod> oh, sorry :(
[2011-09-11 17:36:02] <Talon> no, no, don't be
[2011-09-11 17:36:08] <Talon> if you can paint us a metaphorical picture, that'd actually be really neat
[2011-09-11 17:36:31] <Talon> and then we can reverse-engineer thew ay said influences got there
[2011-09-11 17:37:00] <Tod> Well, part of what allowed art nouveau and art deco to take off as stylistic movements is that it became easy and cheap enough to produce items and buildings that were beautiful as well as functional
[2011-09-11 17:37:04] <Ellington> tal- isnt the why of how things sorta.. storyline types?
[2011-09-11 17:37:40] <Talon> sometimes :P
[2011-09-11 17:37:50] <Tod> I mean, not that buildings weren't beautiful before, but that there is a huge difference between the priorities in a settler town, and beautifying your existing settlement
[2011-09-11 17:38:04] <Austin_J> I kind of envisioned the blend of different aesthetics to be regional. The core is very Art Deco, further out you get a bit more Wild West, the furthest out is little more than airbases and a couple of industries.
[2011-09-11 17:38:18] <Walther_Walrus> Seismic weapons {static} up the planet's crust.  7/8ths of the land slid into the sea, was washed away by the ensuing thousand-foot tsunamis, or /then/ slid into the sea when the shifting weight of water broke open more fault-lines.  Technology was reduced to early 1800s levels and has reprogressed at about 1/3 speed, putting us at 1940 400 years later.  Primitive flight has existed for close
[2011-09-11 17:38:18] <Walther_Walrus> to 100 years, but absent anyone to war against, no big leaps were taken and ranges have been mostly short.  It has been no more than ten years since the furthest-flung skyland in the initial set was reachable.  Ruins may exist on other skylands.  Other pockets of civilization folloing similar arcs certainly do exist, affording opportunities for other factions and other aesthetic styles.
[2011-09-11 17:38:47] <Ellington> thats sorta reverse fun, from a gameplay sense though  AJ... dont wanna slam anything too hard, but exploring to uur and grott was a triumph :D
[2011-09-11 17:39:14] <Austin_J> Well, maybe that's where the ancient ruins stuff I came up with earlier comes into play!
[2011-09-11 17:39:19] <Talon> well, you can have small conclaves of incredible growth and uniqueness simply because they are far enough away from 'civ' but have their own civ
[2011-09-11 17:39:38] <Talon> Keyo, comments?
[2011-09-11 17:39:53] <Kario> My proposal just takes a snapshot of a trade hub that's already been in existence for several decades, the efficiency of which has simply grown as technology has developed.
[2011-09-11 17:40:18] <Kario> Native peoples to these islands have benefited from the trading just as much as the more established and 'civilized' nations have.
[2011-09-11 17:40:55] <Talon> okay
[2011-09-11 17:41:25] <Talon> so we have 'trade hub getting more efficent', 'new found land scramble' and 'remants and rebuilding from the war/catacylsm/badthing'
[2011-09-11 17:41:36] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods*
[2011-09-11 17:41:51] <Kario> (Think of a snapshot of the Pacific Rim, with powers in the current rough locations of China, Las Vegas, Lima, and Australia.)
[2011-09-11 17:42:06] <Tod> now I'm trying to think of settler-simple style in early 20th century aesthetics instead of Victorian, and that's fun.
[2011-09-11 17:42:24] <Austin_J> Tod: Exactly :)
[2011-09-11 17:43:25] <Talon> so, storywise, what are the benefits and drawbacks of finding a newly settled hub versus one that's been around for a long time? do 'far out there special niches' solve problems of uniqueness? does the map look like the pacific rim, or indonesia, or the iceland-norway-france span?
[2011-09-11 17:43:26] <Tod> also, a lot of those styles were influenced by archeological discoveries in Egypt and whatnot.  Maybe some kind of paralel could be worked in?
[2011-09-11 17:43:27] <Kario> I'll be honest.  I haven't done a lot of final flavor-tweaking to my setting, but I've tried to build one that would be highly compatible with a Skyrates-type game.
[2011-09-11 17:43:40] <Austin_J> I also had an idea of several major nation-states that sponsored the early coloniazation. You could get different aesthetics from the different nations as well. Actually... maybe several smaller cores, with the players deciding which one they start at?
[2011-09-11 17:44:23] <Talon> aha. One unified starting location, or multiple ones? Do you get to choose between the greeks, egyptians, and scottish from the outset?
[2011-09-11 17:44:44] <Ellington> one starting location, please
[2011-09-11 17:45:02] <Kario> Ell, care to expound on that?
[2011-09-11 17:45:04] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon: Benefits of finding a new hub mean new goods to trade and new resources. Drawbacks could be worked into the structure of the game. Maybe every now and then, your pilot gets a request for ___________, and will offer double the price.
[2011-09-11 17:45:14] <Austin_J> (I was thinking faux-Americans, faux-Chinese, faux-Germans, and faux...French? British? I dunno)
[2011-09-11 17:46:05] <Ellington> balance, coder simplicity, ease of player use... no multiple starting things. Maybe 5.0
[2011-09-11 17:46:14] <Talon> erm.
[2011-09-11 17:46:22] <Talon> not that difficult code wise or balance wise, ell
[2011-09-11 17:46:35] <Talon> if anything, smaller load with more distributed systems
[2011-09-11 17:46:40] <Ellington> i guess you could pick your t1 plane/starter
[2011-09-11 17:46:42] <Talon> means that the econ gets easier to handle and is less volatile
[2011-09-11 17:46:53] <Mahmoth> I'd say !French, !Chinese/Indonesian, !Spanish and !American, north or south.
[2011-09-11 17:46:55] <Ellington> ANYWAY! I have to leave in... 30-45 min.
[2011-09-11 17:47:11] <Walther_Walrus> Newbies will lack the information to make an informed choice of starting location.
[2011-09-11 17:47:23] <Ellington> ^
[2011-09-11 17:47:24] <Talon> it doesn't matter, it's just flavour
[2011-09-11 17:47:27] <Talon> same 5-6 skylands
[2011-09-11 17:47:37] <Talon> one's greek, one's eastern asian, and one is south african
[2011-09-11 17:47:48] <Kario> Or whatever.
[2011-09-11 17:47:51] <Talon> yeah
[2011-09-11 17:47:51] <Ellington> I like the trade hub/remnants rebuilding
[2011-09-11 17:48:22] <Marcus_Cunningha> Tal: I'd say against the multicultural starting
[2011-09-11 17:48:31] <Marcus_Cunningha> Actuall, retract.
[2011-09-11 17:48:32] <Talon> because?
[2011-09-11 17:48:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> Just realized, players pick their starting species at game start.
[2011-09-11 17:48:45] * Talon isn't pushing anything, just asking questions.
[2011-09-11 17:49:02] <Kario> I am a vote for multicultural starting, but my proposal can be easily tweaked in either direction.
[2011-09-11 17:49:07] <Marcus_Cunningha> And the question was answered :)
[2011-09-11 17:49:18] <Walther_Walrus> I don't think its relevent right now anyway.
[2011-09-11 17:50:08] <Kario> It's slightly relevant, but there are more pressing issues to iron out, IMO.
[2011-09-11 17:50:15] <Talon> one of the interesting things is that you can combine these proposals, in a way -- with multiple factions, you have one that's been quietly existing and building, one that comes from industralized-but-stranded punkville, and one that is running from a war
[2011-09-11 17:50:32] <Walther_Walrus> We're going to start beta 1 with like 15-16 locations.  Mutiple starts is for when we've got 50 locations with factions and possibly multiple 'cores'.
[2011-09-11 17:50:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> Tal: A proposal I sent Ell speaks of several potential factions
[2011-09-11 17:50:46] <Talon> which allows you a trade hub to start out with, a forward base, as well as an industrial city versus a 'greener' island paradise
[2011-09-11 17:50:56] <Austin_J> Good point, Walther.
[2011-09-11 17:51:27] <Talon> whatever we're going to start beta 1 with, though, there's decisions about the history and the factions that need to be made
[2011-09-11 17:51:57] <Kario> Since that influences art style and game flavor.  I concur.
[2011-09-11 17:52:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> With each faction having their own potential art style and flavor :)
[2011-09-11 17:52:52] <Ellington> so, in the interests of the time i have left... do yall want to argue this more? can we settle on anything besides yes planes and yes something factionish and NO BOATS today?
[2011-09-11 17:52:59] <Kario> I... will have to think more on your proposal to combine, Talon.
[2011-09-11 17:53:28] <Talon> Walther: I mean, honestly, we could just have tommy and tod and our artists come up with anything, and then push it into beta 1, and that will make it into the real game, but this is essentially a chance to influence art and whatnot before it happens. Otherwise, all assets will pretty much automatically get used, etc, etc.
[2011-09-11 17:54:03] <Walther_Walrus> The way I had mine running, in my mind, is that the initial set in beta 1 is the 'province' of one civilizational hub.  When expanding to the initial full game, that expands to three civilizational cores and thus three factions.  Players are started in one of the three at random, and may change later if they desire.
[2011-09-11 17:54:09] <Kario> Again, I concur with Talon.  I'd rather us have a slower project that has direction from the start.
[2011-09-11 17:54:36] <Talon> But there's no reason to plan for the beta, walt
[2011-09-11 17:54:40] <Talon> the beta doesn't even need art
[2011-09-11 17:54:45] <Talon> the beta doesn't need jack shit
[2011-09-11 17:54:46] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods* I agree with Kario agreeing with Talon.
[2011-09-11 17:54:57] <Kario> I am... hesitant to agree to that, Walther.
[2011-09-11 17:55:04] <Talon> You plan for the final release that everyone will see
[2011-09-11 17:55:12] <Talon> (and I disagree with randomly starting people, btw)
[2011-09-11 17:55:14] <Walther_Walrus> I am not particularly wedded to the idea, it's just what came up in my head.
[2011-09-11 17:55:21] <Talon> anyway
[2011-09-11 17:55:23] <Talon> as ell said
[2011-09-11 17:55:24] <Kario> Anything we put in the Beta would marry players to those proposed ideas.
[2011-09-11 17:55:34] <Marcus_Cunningha> Besides, Walther, I've already come up with Six factions :)
[2011-09-11 17:55:40] <Talon>  'trade hub getting more efficent', 'new found land scramble' and 'remnants and rebuilding from the war/cataclysm/'
[2011-09-11 17:55:41] <Walther_Walrus> Six is way too many.
[2011-09-11 17:55:52] <Kario> I think there should either be one neutral starting location, or multiple factionalized (for lack of a better term) locations.
[2011-09-11 17:56:29] <Austin_J> Everyone knows where I stand, Talon
[2011-09-11 17:56:39] <Talon> yup. looking for consensus.
[2011-09-11 17:57:10] <Ellington> trade hub micro continent with scattered odd locations
[2011-09-11 17:57:21] <Marcus_Cunningha> *
[2011-09-11 17:57:22] <Marcus_Cunningha> ^
[2011-09-11 17:57:34] <Walther_Walrus> Hold on one second, and I'm going to make a few words that put those three concepts together.
[2011-09-11 17:58:03] <Kario> Also, I'd like to go on the record with this general statement:
[2011-09-11 17:58:32] <Kario> I am an opinionated person and will push strongly for things I feel would or wouldn't work.  In the interests of not running away with the discussion, I encourage other people with strong opinions to do the same.
[2011-09-11 17:58:36] <Kario> Courteously. =)
[2011-09-11 17:58:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods*
[2011-09-11 17:59:01] <Talon> Honestly, I encourage more than just a few people talking
[2011-09-11 17:59:10] <Marcus_Cunningha> I'm a compromiser who doesn't like to see people argue or fight, but I'll tear heads off for things that I've worked on or feel strongly in.
[2011-09-11 17:59:28] <Kario> I encourage anyone with ANY opinions to speak up.
[2011-09-11 17:59:35] <Talon> particularly people that are more heavily invested in art and coding, among other things, but i strongly hope that this doesn't become an insular thing
[2011-09-11 17:59:50] * Talon glares at Pendragon.
[2011-09-11 18:00:48] <Talon> but the one good thing, I think, is that with varied opinions even in a small group, it creates for something that's less likely to succumb to groupthink
[2011-09-11 18:00:55] <Talon> and become something that's really, really bad from the outside.
[2011-09-11 18:00:59] * Kario also waits for Walther's combination proposals.
[2011-09-11 18:01:02] * Talon waits for walt's- yup, that
[2011-09-11 18:01:16] <Ellington> and.. realisitically... with most of these proposals we can make SOMETHING that works fairly well for everybody
[2011-09-11 18:01:33] <Talon> but beyond that, now that there is a hard setting, it's time to start plotting history, and governance, and scale, and factions
[2011-09-11 18:01:38] <Mahmoth> I'm just here to see how this goes.  I'm open on setting, so I'm just waiting for something I can get a toothhold on to pass through.
[2011-09-11 18:01:38] <Marcus_Cunningha> This is also good in that we all have something to bounce ideas off of
[2011-09-11 18:01:44] <Talon> factions are hyper-important for gameplay
[2011-09-11 18:01:47] <Marcus_Cunningha> If something makes sense for one of us, and it makes sense to another.
[2011-09-11 18:01:53] <Tod> yeah, I personally don't dislike any of them... I wasn't invited as a writer, but have some ideas I'm pretty fond of visual/fluff-wise
[2011-09-11 18:02:06] <Kario> Okay, hold on a second here.
[2011-09-11 18:02:12] <Ellington> Tod: If you want to do stuff, invite yourself
[2011-09-11 18:02:15] <Ellington> :D
[2011-09-11 18:02:21] <Kario> It's SOUNDING like we have a consensus in that different cultures are the new factions.
[2011-09-11 18:02:21] <Marcus_Cunningha> Tod - Yeah, what Ell said
[2011-09-11 18:02:24] <Marcus_Cunningha> Share your ideas.
[2011-09-11 18:02:31] <Kario> Are there ANY counterarguments or counterproposals?
[2011-09-11 18:02:32] <Marcus_Cunningha> Kario, you're a god {static} genius
[2011-09-11 18:02:48] <matejcik> ummmmm....
[2011-09-11 18:03:09] <Austin_J> The alternative is something with internal divides among an overall culture. Kind of like Skyrates factions.
[2011-09-11 18:03:09] <Marcus_Cunningha> Though, the only thing I'd say.....
[2011-09-11 18:03:18] <Marcus_Cunningha> Is not all the cultures became factions
[2011-09-11 18:03:27] <Marcus_Cunningha> Factions may have developed into their own culture, though
[2011-09-11 18:03:30] * Kario concurs with that caveat.
[2011-09-11 18:03:30] <matejcik> that is important to note, yes.
[2011-09-11 18:03:39] <Ellington> too many factios divided by too few players..
[2011-09-11 18:03:43] <Talon> which is to say
[2011-09-11 18:03:43] <Tod> Yeah, I think inter-cultural factions would help bring people together for the rp aspects
[2011-09-11 18:03:47] <matejcik> also, with cultures = factions, i don't think joining factions makes much sense
[2011-09-11 18:03:51] <Talon> what if you like asian architecture, but hate war?
[2011-09-11 18:03:57] <Talon> you don't want the asians to be Red
[2011-09-11 18:04:16] <Kario> Personally, I'd like to get away from tying these factions to gameplay aspects.
[2011-09-11 18:04:16] <Walther_Walrus> The remnants rebuilding from a past cataclysm have, in isolation from each other, developed three clusters of skylands among which heavy trading by air is well established, centered around the location they came from and just close enough to each other to have also been trading with each other.  Recently, technology has advanced such that many new locations have been opened up, causing a
[2011-09-11 18:04:17] <Walther_Walrus> rush to new frontiers and discoveries and other cool stuff.
[2011-09-11 18:04:18] <Talon> but what if you like asian architecture and the asian faction is a bunch of doves? that's not good either
[2011-09-11 18:04:23] <Tod> so maybe at game start, people could pick a species and a cultural background, but pick a faction as they learn more about the setting and gameplay
[2011-09-11 18:04:37] <Austin_J> mat: In my idea, the faction-cultures are all courting independent pilots, as part of the proxy economic war.
[2011-09-11 18:04:39] <Marcus_Cunningha> Pick a species, pick a culture, join a faction
[2011-09-11 18:04:41] <Marcus_Cunningha> How's that?
[2011-09-11 18:04:51] <Talon> well, pick a species, pick a culture, play the game, join a faction
[2011-09-11 18:05:03] <Marcus_Cunningha> Well, yeah.
[2011-09-11 18:05:11] <Kario> Well, that's true.  Just because you were born as A doesn't mean you can't defect to D.
[2011-09-11 18:05:21] <Talon> but then the question is, do the cultures and factions have any interconnection?
[2011-09-11 18:05:29] <Talon> do you fight for your culture, your faction, both, or at will?
[2011-09-11 18:05:37] <Talon> how many layers of customization scare peoplel away?
[2011-09-11 18:05:39] <Marcus_Cunningha> Does your culture benefit you?
[2011-09-11 18:05:44] <Ellington> i like factions being more = to guilds
[2011-09-11 18:05:49] <Talon> is this purely cosmetic?
[2011-09-11 18:05:54] <Tod> maybe some factions tend toward nationalisms, and some have other goals
[2011-09-11 18:05:57] <Pendragon> is there an "outsider" culture?
[2011-09-11 18:06:02] <Talon> pirates!
[2011-09-11 18:06:03] <matejcik> i'd like to keep guilds and factions separate
[2011-09-11 18:06:04] <Tod> nationalism, not nationalisms...
[2011-09-11 18:06:05] <Kario> Okay, I guess we don't have consensus on that after all.  Something to continue discussion on.  I'm glad I asked about that, though.
[2011-09-11 18:06:07] <Austin_J> Pen: Pirates!
[2011-09-11 18:06:34] <Pendragon> That is player joinable?
[2011-09-11 18:06:39] <Talon> no
[2011-09-11 18:06:39] <Talon> lol
[2011-09-11 18:06:42] <Kario> Welll....
[2011-09-11 18:06:49] <Kario> I have proposals on THAT, too, but we'll get back to that later.
[2011-09-11 18:06:50] <Kario> Anyway.
[2011-09-11 18:06:51] <Talon> i mean, sure, but that's a discussion for...actually, now is fine
[2011-09-11 18:06:57] <Marcus_Cunningha> I proposed a somewhat druidic faction that opposes technology, which would be player joinable.
[2011-09-11 18:06:57] <Kario> Wait, hold on.
[2011-09-11 18:07:04] <Kario> Let's talk about Walther's thing.
[2011-09-11 18:07:19] <Talon> go on
[2011-09-11 18:08:03] <Pendragon> Thing is all games need the Barbarian from the frozen Norths background
[2011-09-11 18:08:05] <Kario> My big issue with Post-apocalyptic is that it's usually an excuse to take Earth geography and transform its technology level and/or politics.
[2011-09-11 18:08:22] <Kario> Why do we NEED there to be an apocalypse in this world?
[2011-09-11 18:08:37] <Marcus_Cunningha> Kario: Writer's Fiat
[2011-09-11 18:08:39] <Kario> Justify the war and subsequent rebuild and I could get behind it.
[2011-09-11 18:08:47] <Austin_J> There have always been spires, Kario?
[2011-09-11 18:08:50] <matejcik> because apocalypse let's you forget technology and discover cool stuff that was there before and forgotten.
[2011-09-11 18:08:56] <Tod> if people are rebuilding from a past catyclsm, discoveries about that could account for the paralell to the art deco stuff, too
[2011-09-11 18:09:08] <Marcus_Cunningha> Justify the war?
[2011-09-11 18:09:13] <Pendragon> I'd prefer it just being a backwater, and just being a bush pilot. No need for end of the world
[2011-09-11 18:09:13] <Walther_Walrus> Kario - When 7/8ths of the land is removed, so do all geographic connections to earth-that-was.
[2011-09-11 18:09:16] <Marcus_Cunningha> If I could do that I'd work for the UN
[2011-09-11 18:09:48] <Tod> what if there was a civilization that fell a long time ago, but there was enough time for civilization to recover, and now it's an age of exploration?
[2011-09-11 18:09:52] <Marcus_Cunningha> The rebuild was done because the survivors didn't want that to be the end of their world.
[2011-09-11 18:10:07] <Austin_J> See, I don't like the "lost technology" caveat. I like the idea that airplanes are relatively new and exciting, much like they were in the 1930s.
[2011-09-11 18:10:08] <Talon> we've been dodging something major
[2011-09-11 18:10:10] <Talon> which is to say
[2011-09-11 18:10:13] <Talon> are there furries?
[2011-09-11 18:10:18] <Kario> Well, I mean, why do we need an apocalypse to have a world with floating islands?
[2011-09-11 18:10:19] <Walther_Walrus> It's a sufficient cataclysm to arrange the geography and cultures however we {static} well please with no reference whatsoever to what went before.
[2011-09-11 18:10:20] <Talon> if so, none of thiis shit matters.
[2011-09-11 18:10:20] <Talon> lol
[2011-09-11 18:10:25] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon: Yes.
[2011-09-11 18:10:26] <Austin_J> Yeah, me and Tod were discussing that earlier.
[2011-09-11 18:10:27] <Kario> (I think that was a consensus long ago.)
[2011-09-11 18:10:35] <Talon> okay, just checking
[2011-09-11 18:10:43] <TommyC> I didn't know
[2011-09-11 18:10:50] <TommyC> :)
[2011-09-11 18:10:50] <Austin_J> I mentioned that we kind of have an unspoken assumption of furries.
[2011-09-11 18:10:57] <Talon> if so, then there's a lessened standard of realism on wars and things that are not wars and cataclysms
[2011-09-11 18:10:59] <Kario> What if the atmosphere is just dense enough closer to the planet's core that land naturally floats?
[2011-09-11 18:11:00] <Austin_J> Oh, Tommy, link in your PMs
[2011-09-11 18:11:06] <Austin_J> Er, private messages.
[2011-09-11 18:11:09] <Talon> because it's like...how far back are you going to go with the history?
[2011-09-11 18:11:11] |<-- Ellington has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2011-09-11 18:11:25] <Kario> Why do we NEED the war to build this world?
[2011-09-11 18:11:37] <matejcik> Kario: that proposal re dense atmosphere is scarily kids-sciencey
[2011-09-11 18:11:41] <Walther_Walrus> Kario - Because Darwin's finches, that's why.  If isolation has been this bad for the last godawful millions of years...
[2011-09-11 18:12:06] <matejcik> i'd much rather tweak some unspecified basic parameters of physics so that weight difference between breathable air and hydrogen is, like, massive
[2011-09-11 18:12:08] <Kario> And THAT is the kind of answer I was looking for.
[2011-09-11 18:12:24] * Walther_Walrus bows.
[2011-09-11 18:12:31] <Marcus_Cunningha> Nicely said, Walther.
[2011-09-11 18:12:40] <Marcus_Cunningha> I was thinking of an actual answer, Kario
[2011-09-11 18:12:48] <Marcus_Cunningha> But Walther's sums up mine nicely
[2011-09-11 18:13:10] <Talon> austin's new frontier does not require a war
[2011-09-11 18:13:21] <Marcus_Cunningha> No but it may lead to one
[2011-09-11 18:13:35] <Kario> No, and mine is just a delicate balance that may lead to one as well.
[2011-09-11 18:13:47] <Marcus_Cunningha> Hmmmm
[2011-09-11 18:13:48] <Kario> But I kind of like the combined proposal as well.
[2011-09-11 18:14:11] <Kario> And I wanted to know we were going somewhere aside from "nukes are an easy way to explain why things are different."
[2011-09-11 18:14:13] <Kario> And now I do.
[2011-09-11 18:14:14] -->| Ellington (~chatzilla@c-98-201-95-232.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 18:14:24] <Austin_J> Of course, Darwin's finches could explain why there are so many intelligent species in the world. :)
[2011-09-11 18:14:25] <Ellington> sorry guys, sudden unexpected power failure
[2011-09-11 18:14:43] <Ellington> missed everything after 'lets talk about ww's proposal'
[2011-09-11 18:14:52] <Kario> Blah.  Can someone pastebin it?
[2011-09-11 18:14:55] <Walther_Walrus> The current state of affairs in my combined proposal is /also/ a delicate balance being upset by vast new resources to race to that might lead to war.
[2011-09-11 18:15:05] <matejcik> speaking of species ... i like the idea that all the furries are actually one species with a peculiar set of dominant/recessive gene combinations that express as distinct body shapes
[2011-09-11 18:15:30] <Kario> ...
[2011-09-11 18:15:41] <Kario> That is a BRILLIANT idea and one I can't believe I have never heard anyone in the fandom express before.
[2011-09-11 18:15:55] <Ellington> dont be overly sarcastic to my coder, keyo :P
[2011-09-11 18:16:01] <Kario> No, I'm serious.
[2011-09-11 18:16:03] <Kario> Dead serious.
[2011-09-11 18:16:08] <Walther_Walrus> I mean, you could say 'fox-dudes evolved on that island here and cat-dudes evolved there', but then they're all essentially alien species to each other without so much as proto-indo-european in common on the language front and that's a godawful mess and so I support what mate just said.
[2011-09-11 18:16:14] <Ellington> oh, ok. /me is not in the fandom
[2011-09-11 18:16:24] <Tod> I was hoping to suggest reptile and/or bird critters
[2011-09-11 18:16:32] <Austin_J> That reminds me, Ellington. How do you feel about half of your dev team being furries? :)
[2011-09-11 18:16:43] <Tod> only because I like drawing them, though 6_6
[2011-09-11 18:16:48] <Ellington> dont get it on my mom? Dont get it creepy in the game?
[2011-09-11 18:16:54] <TommyC> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v327/Paradogs/Fauxrates/Fauxrates_smpl_bw1.jpg
[2011-09-11 18:16:58] <Kario> I am normally against reptiles and avians but given mate's proposal I am okay with it.
[2011-09-11 18:17:14] <Kario> Since my big beef with reptiles and avians is that they have different biologies.
[2011-09-11 18:17:15] <TommyC> something I did this morning since race is mentioned. :x
[2011-09-11 18:17:17] * matejcik bows
[2011-09-11 18:17:24] <Marcus_Cunningha> Tommy: Nice
[2011-09-11 18:17:36] <Walther_Walrus> "peculiar set of dominant/recessive gene combinations that express as distinct body shapes" like unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies!  ¬¬
[2011-09-11 18:17:37] <Austin_J> Yay ferrets!
[2011-09-11 18:17:40] <Tod> yeah, that's the tricky part
[2011-09-11 18:18:04] <alliisara> Another random input, but I do like the idea of it being open to more than just mammals
[2011-09-11 18:18:21] <Ellington> ok. so.... the setting proposal..... whats the final sticking points?
[2011-09-11 18:18:21] <Mahmoth> Frogs!
[2011-09-11 18:18:26] <Tod> frogs!
[2011-09-11 18:18:40] <Austin_J> I think "is there a cataclysm in the past" is one.
[2011-09-11 18:18:41] <Pendragon> I like frogs
[2011-09-11 18:18:48] <Austin_J> Sticking point, that is.
[2011-09-11 18:18:54] <Mahmoth> Actually, {static} frogs.
[2011-09-11 18:19:01] <Mahmoth> Axolotls!
[2011-09-11 18:19:03] <Marcus_Cunningha> No, they're slimy
[2011-09-11 18:19:03] <Ellington> right AJ
[2011-09-11 18:19:04] <Kario> Oh god.
[2011-09-11 18:19:08] <alliisara> I love frogs. They're cute
[2011-09-11 18:19:10] <alliisara> And make great pets
[2011-09-11 18:19:14] <Kario> We do not want to frighten away our entire population, Mah.
[2011-09-11 18:19:15] * alliisara totally had pet frogs for years
[2011-09-11 18:19:17] <Mahmoth> :D
[2011-09-11 18:19:26] <Austin_J> I think we kind of starting leaning towards ocean as the big barrier.
[2011-09-11 18:19:28] <Walther_Walrus> I don't know about avians, if they can fly under their own power.  But that's really getting ahead of ourselves a bit.
[2011-09-11 18:19:40] <Tod> A humanoid bird probably wouldn't be able to fly, really
[2011-09-11 18:19:40] <Austin_J> but I might be wrong on that.
[2011-09-11 18:19:45] <Pendragon> Hey, pokemon got away with Axolotls :P
[2011-09-11 18:19:49] <Ellington> I am still firmly in favor of the starting X locations being on a sorta micro continent/very big skyland
[2011-09-11 18:19:55] <alliisara> I had a Skyrates character (who I never finished developing, sadly) who was a bat who could fly under his own power. And had plot ideas involving it
[2011-09-11 18:19:57] <Kario> No, I think we're mostly agreed about oceans.
[2011-09-11 18:20:07] <Kario> (If you're NOT, say something.)
[2011-09-11 18:20:19] * Ellington points the furry discussions to #furfriendsfurever
[2011-09-11 18:20:23] <Mahmoth> Works for me.
[2011-09-11 18:20:37] <Walther_Walrus> I prefer the oceans and don't much like a multi-location minicontinent.
[2011-09-11 18:20:48] <Ellington> noted
[2011-09-11 18:21:01] <Kario> I am against a multi-location minicontinent but I can see ways to make it work.
[2011-09-11 18:21:12] <Ellington> of course, i mean like... 5 locations then the other 20 being spread out over the ocean
[2011-09-11 18:22:09] <Kario> Of course, it doesn't work at all with Walther's.
[2011-09-11 18:22:11] <Kario> Which reminds me.
[2011-09-11 18:22:15] <Kario> How do your lands float, Walther?
[2011-09-11 18:22:17] <Walther_Walrus> I would try to make it work if the majority wants to overrule me, but I don't much like it.  Land travel is just so much more fuel-efficient over any terrain that doesn't effectively make the continent into five islands.
[2011-09-11 18:22:20] <Kario> (I may have missed that point)
[2011-09-11 18:22:28] <Austin_J> I thought his lands were giant spires
[2011-09-11 18:22:39] <Ellington> dosent matter how the lands get there (just yet)
[2011-09-11 18:22:49] * Talon taps three lands, plays blue eyes white dragon.
[2011-09-11 18:23:02] * Marcus_Cunningha counterspells
[2011-09-11 18:23:14] <Ellington> Talon? MC? Kyra? Tod? votes on setting?
[2011-09-11 18:23:30] <Walther_Walrus> Kario - Well, they don't.  They stick up out of the ocean on a couple thousand feet of cliffs and stuff.  They could be floating in the air or floating on the water if we wanted to, I just went with the path of least resistance as far as 'things that need explaining' goes.
[2011-09-11 18:23:31] <Ellington> Mah? mate? ML? Tabris?
[2011-09-11 18:23:33] <Talon> "yes"
[2011-09-11 18:23:40] <Tabzee> Hello?
[2011-09-11 18:23:43] <Talon> lol.
[2011-09-11 18:23:52] <Kario> Okay, so we're pretty much on "islands."
[2011-09-11 18:23:56] <Talon> 'hello' is a great thing to come in by
[2011-09-11 18:23:56] <Marcus_Cunningha> Could you please repeat the current vote?
[2011-09-11 18:23:58] <Ellington> any thoughs on the setting as discussed, tabris?
[2011-09-11 18:24:02] <Talon> islands, islands in the skyyyyyyyy
[2011-09-11 18:24:07] * Tabzee scrolls up and scans.
[2011-09-11 18:24:09] <Marcus_Cunningha> Oh, then yes.
[2011-09-11 18:24:23] <Marcus_Cunningha> Skylands, Star Lands, Star Islands...
[2011-09-11 18:24:35] <Talon> but no, i agree
[2011-09-11 18:24:39] <Walther_Walrus> I don't really care if they're islands, floating-on-water islands, or skylands.  I didn't want to complicate myself explaining how they were floating, is all.
[2011-09-11 18:24:42] <Ellington> i'm out of time... and feeling like yall want more time
[2011-09-11 18:24:43] <Talon> continents are interesting
[2011-09-11 18:24:51] <Talon> we haven't discussed the map
[2011-09-11 18:24:54] <Talon> which is pretty important
[2011-09-11 18:25:00] <Talon> for realistic faction placement
[2011-09-11 18:25:09] <alliisara> I have been more of a hinderance than a help in this discussion, I'm surprised I get a vote. XD And I actually don't care, I'm happy with anything I think
[2011-09-11 18:25:11] <Kario> It is, but any of the ideas can have infinitely many maps.
[2011-09-11 18:25:17] <Mahmoth> So, three groups, recovering from a cataclysm, through different means, communicating, exploring an archipelago?
[2011-09-11 18:25:31] <Ellington> ok. i leave before my gf kills me.... narrow this down for me for later :P
[2011-09-11 18:25:35] <Talon> hahahah
[2011-09-11 18:25:36] <Mahmoth> Fine by me.
[2011-09-11 18:25:55] <Austin_J> I'll send you my revised proposal, Ell.
[2011-09-11 18:25:57] <Tabzee> Mmm, all right.
[2011-09-11 18:26:03] <Talon> no, no
[2011-09-11 18:26:07] <Talon> stop sending him proposals
[2011-09-11 18:26:11] <Talon> and come to a consensus here
[2011-09-11 18:26:12] <Ellington> ty everybody. i gtg!
[2011-09-11 18:26:15] <Kario> ^
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[2011-09-11 18:26:18] <Marcus_Cunningha> Laters El
[2011-09-11 18:26:43] <Talon> proposals lead to it being discussed here, which is to say that all proposals should have been sent here in the first place, put up on google docs for public viewing/discussions
[2011-09-11 18:26:48] <Kario> I'm going to put a first-choice vote for mine and a second-choice vote for Walther's original.
[2011-09-11 18:26:51] <Marcus_Cunningha> Mah, I'd say three to start, but just like Skyrates became 5 (6) factions, we may want to include or at least entertain the prospect of more then just the base three.
[2011-09-11 18:27:25] <Walther_Walrus> Skyrates turning into 5 factions is part of what killed the game, IMO.
[2011-09-11 18:27:30] <Talon> i think three is a pseudo-random number that has no reason to be kept if justification can be made to expand or contract it
[2011-09-11 18:27:35] <Talon> though, yes, more factions is not better
[2011-09-11 18:27:57] <Austin_J> I proposed 4 factions. Seemed like a nice middle ground between 3 and 5
[2011-09-11 18:28:12] <Talon> -blinks-
[2011-09-11 18:28:17] <Talon> offense not meant
[2011-09-11 18:28:30] <Talon> but 'that's a nice middle ground' is a terrible argument
[2011-09-11 18:28:53] <Talon> that's like saying, we should have 5planes per tier, it's between 1 and 10
[2011-09-11 18:28:54] <Kario> I appreciate the combined proposal but would rather have at least one person with a strong vision of the core world.
[2011-09-11 18:29:18] <Marcus_Cunningha> None taken
[2011-09-11 18:29:33] <Marcus_Cunningha> Kario: I like my vision ;)
[2011-09-11 18:29:48] <Walther_Walrus> I've got a vision of it, I just altered the details of mine to try to encompass the things you and Austin seemed to be most fond of, Kario.  :P
[2011-09-11 18:29:52] <Talon> which is to say, factions need to have competing interests, make sense, they must have arisen historically with enough of a reason not to get jacked by other factions and overtaken, etc, etc. the idealogy should stand by itself, and make sense in this new world
[2011-09-11 18:30:14] <Kario> I would like to see all the other folks with opinions on a first and second-choice to vote as well.
[2011-09-11 18:30:35] <Walther_Walrus> I like my combined proposal as a first choice and Kario's as a second.
[2011-09-11 18:30:37] * Kario erases the lats 'to.'
[2011-09-11 18:30:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> I think everyone's first vote is their own.
[2011-09-11 18:30:45] <Talon> if tyou're going to do it
[2011-09-11 18:30:47] <Talon> do it the right way
[2011-09-11 18:30:51] <Talon> put the proposals up on a google doc
[2011-09-11 18:30:57] <Talon> and have people vote in front of everyone
[2011-09-11 18:31:02] <Austin_J> I can put mine up on the google. I think.
[2011-09-11 18:31:17] <Talon> well, it's really a spreadsheet
[2011-09-11 18:31:36] <Talon> people's proposal links up top, list of people on the side, numbers to indicate first/second choice
[2011-09-11 18:31:45] <Austin_J> Ah
[2011-09-11 18:32:01] <Talon> Tod, TommyC
[2011-09-11 18:32:13] <Talon> Do you two have some thoughts you can run with and turn into sketches for islands?
[2011-09-11 18:32:37] <Walther_Walrus> You gonna make this spreadsheet, Talon?
[2011-09-11 18:33:11] <TommyC> I see what I can cook up within the next week, regarding each proposal
[2011-09-11 18:33:27] <TommyC> I'm torn between spires and desert+
[2011-09-11 18:33:30] <TommyC> <_>
[2011-09-11 18:33:34] <Talon> no, i am not, walther.
[2011-09-11 18:33:40] <Tod> I can doodle up some visual ideas, sure
[2011-09-11 18:33:40] <Talon> i invite someone else to, though.
[2011-09-11 18:33:55] <Talon> i think it'd help
[2011-09-11 18:34:00] <Talon> to see what our artists can come up for
[2011-09-11 18:34:25] <Talon> both for characters, and settings, and islands, and port/hangar art, and if they're really ambitious, into skyland cultures and whatnot
[2011-09-11 18:34:47] <Talon> think you can have some sketches by next sunday, TommyC, tod?
[2011-09-11 18:34:49] <Austin_J> OK, guys, I have to log out for a bit, but I'll be back in a few
[2011-09-11 18:34:50] <Tod> Do you want me to just run with this, for now, or base it off specific setting write-ups?
[2011-09-11 18:34:57] <Tod> I will definitely have time this week, yeah
[2011-09-11 18:35:06] <TommyC> sure
[2011-09-11 18:35:37] <Kario> I'm going to suggest that the artists keep the setting write-ups in mind.
[2011-09-11 18:35:48] <Kario> Visual appeal is a big part of game design, too.
[2011-09-11 18:36:06] <Kario> And if one of the setting is especially well-realized in the art, I think the entire design team is obligated to try to make that one work.
[2011-09-11 18:36:14] <Kario> *settings
[2011-09-11 18:36:37] <Marcus_Cunningha> There's also the potential for each skyland / island / settlement to have their own flavor
[2011-09-11 18:36:50] * Kario nods.
[2011-09-11 18:36:55] <Marcus_Cunningha> And also, it'd be dangerous to say that whichever design the artists draw best wins
[2011-09-11 18:37:01] <Kario> Well, okay, point.
[2011-09-11 18:37:07] <Marcus_Cunningha> Cause that would pretty much invalidate any discussion we'd having here :)
[2011-09-11 18:37:22] <Kario> I do think a lot of the flavor elements can be applied to any of the five proposals, though.
[2011-09-11 18:37:34] <Tod> yeah, that's how I feel.
[2011-09-11 18:37:35] <Kario> And I think most map designs can be applied to any of the five proposals.
[2011-09-11 18:37:37] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods nods* Oh certainly
[2011-09-11 18:37:39] <Talon> i would just run with  what you like, Tod, though if you want to take a stab at a bit of the write-ups, that'd be neat
[2011-09-11 18:37:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> What we have here is a TON of potential
[2011-09-11 18:37:43] <Tod> I'd like to challenge myself to come up with fun stuff that could work with -anyone's- idea
[2011-09-11 18:38:02] <Tod> and help support coming up with new ways of combining ideas, not to try and influence which idea -I- like best getting picked
[2011-09-11 18:38:02] <Talon> and, actually, whichever design the artists draw bests wins is a pretty optimal outcome
[2011-09-11 18:38:05] <Tod> if that makes sense
[2011-09-11 18:38:44] <Talon> if our writers aren't good enough to adapt to our already excellent artists, then it might be time to find new writers
[2011-09-11 18:38:54] <Marcus_Cunningha> That is a valid point
[2011-09-11 18:39:09] <Marcus_Cunningha> And I can write to anything, really
[2011-09-11 18:39:18] <Walther_Walrus> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmWdyIOgMgkpdGZ5NW90VFBiV1MtM3RTeUpYSVZnNlE&hl=en_US
[2011-09-11 18:39:20] <Talon> and on any design team, your artists are more important
[2011-09-11 18:39:21] <Kario> I think the discussion we've had here has hammered out a lot of things to the point where we *could* make any of the histories work.
[2011-09-11 18:39:25] |<-- Austin_J has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2011-09-11 18:39:33] <Marcus_Cunningha> *nods*
[2011-09-11 18:39:41] <Walther_Walrus> Is this what you were thinking, Talon?
[2011-09-11 18:39:47] <Walther_Walrus> Re voting spreadsheet
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[2011-09-11 18:40:37] <Walther_Walrus> Man, whoever just did that formatting, don't do that.  It gets so wide that some people may not notice all the options.
[2011-09-11 18:41:54] <Talon> but formatting is good
[2011-09-11 18:41:55] <Talon> lol
[2011-09-11 18:42:04] <TommyC> :P
[2011-09-11 18:42:44] <matejcik> 2 points for primary, 1 for secondary? cos it may be better to just put in numbers and do a sum
[2011-09-11 18:42:44] <Walther_Walrus> I mean, I'm 5120 wide, I don't care, but some people are not as resolutionally advantaged as I am.
[2011-09-11 18:42:53] <Tod> are we voting now, or next week?
[2011-09-11 18:43:07] <Talon> you can vote through the week
[2011-09-11 18:43:09] <Kario> I think we're voting over this week and running with what we get after next week.
[2011-09-11 18:43:11] <Talon> we'll come back to it next sunday, yes
[2011-09-11 18:43:13] <Talon> also
[2011-09-11 18:43:16] <matejcik> (or write a formula to count, but sum is somewhat easier and people can easily distinguish 1 and 2 ;e)
[2011-09-11 18:43:17] <Talon> if you have links to your proposals
[2011-09-11 18:43:19] <Talon> which you {static} well should
[2011-09-11 18:43:24] <Talon> put them in
[2011-09-11 18:43:51] <Walther_Walrus> I don't, since I just threw together a new one on the meeting.  :P  But I'll get something up there in the next fifteen minutes or so.
[2011-09-11 18:44:02] <Talon> right, right
[2011-09-11 18:44:11] * Talon pokes Sapheta
[2011-09-11 18:44:14] <Kario> I'll put one up.
[2011-09-11 18:44:16] <Talon> Can you get the transcript up on Skyr?
[2011-09-11 18:44:22] <Sapheta> Yeah, later.
[2011-09-11 18:44:29] <Sapheta> Can't right now because I'm a little busy.
[2011-09-11 18:44:35] <Talon> no rush
[2011-09-11 18:44:49] <Talon> With settings, you should be pretty specific, Walther_Walrus, Kario, Marcus_Cunningham, etc. Factions should be considered, as well as a sketch of the history
[2011-09-11 18:45:03] <Talon> If you want, you can actually just create a new sheet and put your setting in that sheet
[2011-09-11 18:45:10] <Kario> That's what I was going to do.
[2011-09-11 18:45:11] <Talon> and that way, people don't need to open up 5003054050594054 tabs
[2011-09-11 18:45:19] <Talon> and finally, this will be posted on the forum, so other people will likely vote
[2011-09-11 18:45:27] <Talon> this is not final, this is not a popularity contest
[2011-09-11 18:46:01] <Kario> But it will help us come to a consensus.
[2011-09-11 18:46:02] <TommyC> So I still get to doodle about each setting regardless of this voting result?
[2011-09-11 18:46:05] <TommyC> :)
[2011-09-11 18:46:11] <Talon> yes
[2011-09-11 18:46:12] <Talon> absolutely
[2011-09-11 18:46:23] =-= Tabzee is now known as Tabs|Away
[2011-09-11 18:48:13] |<-- Calvin has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2011-09-11 18:48:31] <Tod> this is the best homework ever
[2011-09-11 18:48:41] <Tod> I will make a point to draw a frog.
[2011-09-11 18:49:09] <Walther_Walrus> Talon
[2011-09-11 18:49:48] <Walther_Walrus> How detailed should I make the proposal on the voting?  You do seem to have opinions on that matter.
[2011-09-11 18:50:29] <Talon> the summary should be 50 words, expansions (factions, map, subsystems, history) no more than 200
[2011-09-11 18:50:47] <Talon> if you can't concisely communicate the idea, it's too complicated for the people that will be playing the game
[2011-09-11 18:52:34] <Walther_Walrus> Very well.
[2011-09-11 18:54:52] <Kario> Bah.  And here I'm in the middle of a well-developed hook.
[2011-09-11 18:55:05] =-= Tabs|Away is now known as Tabzee
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[2011-09-11 18:55:42] <Marcus_Cunningha> Bah, you and your word limits
[2011-09-11 18:57:13] <Walther_Walrus> I'd better cut out this yo momma joke to save words, then.
[2011-09-11 18:57:58] -->| Austin_J (~chatzilla@99-45-200-202.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fauxrates
[2011-09-11 18:58:29] <Austin_J> So, what did I miss when I logged?
[2011-09-11 18:59:31] <TommyC> setting voting spreadsheet?
[2011-09-11 18:59:57] <Marcus_Cunningha> Talon?
[2011-09-11 19:00:09] <Marcus_Cunningha> 200 words per expansion, or 200 words total for all expansions?
[2011-09-11 19:00:13] <Austin_J> Last I saw was Kario saying "visual appeal is a big part of game design too"
[2011-09-11 19:00:42] <TommyC> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmWdyIOgMgkpdGZ5NW90VFBiV1MtM3RTeUpYSVZnNlE&hl=en_US
[2011-09-11 19:00:47] <TommyC> re: austin
[2011-09-11 19:01:05] <Marcus_Cunningha> Folks are Google-Doc'ing their proposals for ease of reference
[2011-09-11 19:02:59] <Austin_J> Alright.... how do I link my proposal in?
[2011-09-11 19:03:30] <TommyC> link/new sheet?
[2011-09-11 19:04:03] <Kario> What subsystems are we discussing in these proposals?
[2011-09-11 19:04:07] <Talon> 200 per explanation
[2011-09-11 19:08:10] * Marcus_Cunningha is curious about that as well
[2011-09-11 19:09:10] <matejcik> whatever subsystems you care to explain, i'd say?
[2011-09-11 19:09:56] <Marcus_Cunningha> I think clarity of "What do you mean Subsystems" is the question
[2011-09-11 19:10:07] <Marcus_Cunningha> Using the confusing term in its own explaination isn't helpful :)
[2011-09-11 19:10:51] <matejcik> oh. i thought Kario used "subsystems" as if he knew what he was talking about :e)
[2011-09-11 19:11:25] <Marcus_Cunningha> I'm inclined to think "Interesting game mechanics" but we're nowhere NEAR that point in the discussion
[2011-09-11 19:11:42] <matejcik> subsystems so far are flying, trading, combat
[2011-09-11 19:11:51] <Marcus_Cunningha> Unless we're to sell whatever bang-wizz ideas come bundled in with out proposal
[2011-09-11 19:12:15] <matejcik> but yes, i believe you can put in some bang-wizz ideas too. just delimit them as such to not scare away your voters
[2011-09-11 19:12:43] <Marcus_Cunningha> So no armada of zombie pilots. Gotcha
[2011-09-11 19:12:51] * Kario prods Talon, since he's admining this discussion.
[2011-09-11 19:15:29] <matejcik> Austin_J: i don't see your link :e(
[2011-09-11 19:15:49] <Austin_J> Working on it.
[2011-09-11 19:16:17] <Austin_J> Wait, should it be an actual link, or a description written in one of these cells?
[2011-09-11 19:16:30] <Marcus_Cunningha> An actual link seems to be the concensus
[2011-09-11 19:16:51] <Austin_J> I need the guy with webhosting space to come online, then.
[2011-09-11 19:16:57] <matejcik> (except if it's an actual link, then what's up with the separate sheets?)
[2011-09-11 19:20:00] <Marcus_Cunningha> Go to google, and host it as a Google Document
[2011-09-11 19:22:22] <Austin_J> And was the word limit 50 or 100 words?
[2011-09-11 19:23:59] <Austin_J> Er, 200 words on the latter
[2011-09-11 19:24:25] <Kario> Tell me if the link works.
[2011-09-11 19:24:53] <Marcus_Cunningha> 50 words for a synopsis, and 200 words per subsection (History, Factions, Map, etc)
[2011-09-11 19:25:10] <Marcus_Cunningha> Link works perfect
[2011-09-11 19:25:11] <Austin_J> Ah
[2011-09-11 19:25:42] <Austin_J> I wish it wasn't taking up my vote row, though :)
[2011-09-11 19:26:14] <Marcus_Cunningha> Make a new row and move it there.
[2011-09-11 19:26:34] <Walther_Walrus> I did a short, a long, and a FAQ on mine.
[2011-09-11 19:26:35] <Marcus_Cunningha> I did it for you :)
[2011-09-11 19:27:53] <Marcus_Cunningha> I also included it as a separate sheet, incase "Different sheets" were what was meant.
[2011-09-11 19:30:03] * Talon shrugs
[2011-09-11 19:30:22] <Talon> yeah, what keyo's doing is right
[2011-09-11 19:31:20] <Marcus_Cunningha> okidoke. So I did it right for Kario
[2011-09-11 19:33:40] <Marcus_Cunningha> Please... Stop... Reverting...
[2011-09-11 19:34:22] <Talon> erm, yeah
[2011-09-11 19:34:23] <Talon> i think
[2011-09-11 19:34:25] <Talon> slight
[2011-09-11 19:34:25] <Talon> uh
[2011-09-11 19:34:27] <Talon> weirdness
[2011-09-11 19:34:28] <Talon> should be good now
[2011-09-11 19:34:35] <Marcus_Cunningha> There. My proposal is up
[2011-09-11 19:35:29] <Marcus_Cunningha> I only make specific mention of it because it took me seven tries
[2011-09-11 19:35:30] <Marcus_Cunningha> :)
[2011-09-11 19:39:41] <Walther_Walrus> There we are, got a link up.
[2011-09-11 19:41:42] <Kario> I'll read these all over again after they're all up and possibly change my vote.
[2011-09-11 19:41:54] <Marcus_Cunningha> Still a nice summary Walther
[2011-09-11 19:42:25] <Walther_Walrus> Thank you.
[2011-09-11 19:43:15] -->| Joseph_W (~Joseph_W@CPE-70-92-22-161.wi.res.rr.com) has joined #fauxrates

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:35 pm 
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Meeting was... interesting. Mostly a lot of arguments for the setting. http://goo.gl/Jn4DE

heres the current ideas. We are voting on them; at this point, unless you have something utterly brilliant, more additions will likely not go over terribly well. Sorry, but you had your chance for proposals :P

Also: anthros are likely (almost positive)
Boats will not be a method for players' main transports.
Islands of some sort (vs 99% land) will be the main setting.

So, put your votes in... Ideally, before next week, I'll have a good setting. Then... the art dogs are unleashed!

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Did everybody do boats and/or planes, on islands? Are you all boring people? I saw one idea with some desert terrain and one idea with some storm terrain, and one idea with islands on stilts.

This may be serviceable, even good. Possibly best. But it is not rad and I am disappointed with the narrow variety of proposals.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:08 am 
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Eskay wrote:
Did everybody do boats and/or planes, on islands? Are you all boring people? I saw one idea with some desert terrain and one idea with some storm terrain, and one idea with islands on stilts.

This may be serviceable, even good. Possibly best. But it is not rad and I am disappointed with the narrow variety of proposals.


How about this for variety, then. Knee-joint-rates. :remygrin:

"Gaia a world divided into layers, each layers have their own set of floating landmasses/mini-planets, but all depends on the 'sun' to prosper. This 'sun' is a minable resource. Explorers seeks to bring sunlight into the surrounding ether, but the people from the inner circles doesn't seem to like that.

The sun is in your hands. Is it the key to the mysterious core of Gaia? or a ticket to the eldritch wonders beyond the known world? You decide!"

... and if you're wondering, I gave up on this sometime ago, so don't take me seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:45 am 

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Eskay wrote:
Did everybody do boats and/or planes, on islands? Are you all boring people? I saw one idea with some desert terrain and one idea with some storm terrain, and one idea with islands on stilts.

This may be serviceable, even good. Possibly best. But it is not rad and I am disappointed with the narrow variety of proposals.

did you even read the proposals?


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:25 am 
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Tommy Chong wrote:
How about this for variety, then. Knee-joint-rates. :remygrin:
Can we have a huge orbiting bunny too?


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 am 

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Eskay wrote:
But it is not rad and I am disappointed with the narrow variety of proposals.


This is known as 'consensus'. However, we welcome rad suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Tommy Chong wrote:
Knee-joint-rates :remygrin:

That is an example of the sort of "different" I was looking for.

matejcik neasi wrote:
did you even read the proposals?

I had thought I had. Upon closer inspection I see there are two sets of links -- I had read the hyperlinked proposals, but not the tab-exclusive one. (Is it possible to condense onto one system? Edit: I did.)

So I see the spreadsheet has three out of five proposals entirely based on planes/boats running between islands in/on a sea, and the other two also use planes, boats, or trucks, traveling over land and sea in exactly the familiar ways.

Am I missing something here?

Talon Karrde wrote:
However, we welcome rad suggestions.

This is good to hear, as I had feared the deadline was up. Three ideas follow.


Last edited by Eskay on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Skyrates (fauxrates?) project
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:20 pm 
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In Larry Niven's The Integral Trees, a neutron star has pulled around itself a ring of air, much of which has an Earth-like temperature and pressure. There is no ground as such; the people live on free-floating trees. Travel is accomplished either by pedal-powered aircraft, or simply by putting on glider wings and catching a favorable wind.

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The neutron star creates permanent wind channels, so that (say) an east-going route will be faster closer in, while a west-going route will be faster further out. This makes non-powered craft like kites and gliders more viable, and gives aerogation skill something to help you with.

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Adapting to Skyrates, we might want to bump up the tech level closer to Sun of Suns, for some more powered aircraft and for additional trade goods.


Last edited by Eskay on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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