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to what extent should guns be allowed in skytopia?
any/all. we live in a world shaped by pirates and war, after all 55%  55%  [ 76 ]
it's fine used in service to a pre-arranged story, but not suddenly or for vigilante moderation 39%  39%  [ 54 ]
not at all. there's simply no need, and guns come with too many problems 6%  6%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 138
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:20 pm 
Legend

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/me scolds BL for linking to an article with naughty language. I suggest this clip instead. It's what I thought of when I read Suino's post, although I can't exactly put my finger on why he makes me think of Doomcore.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:36 pm 

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Simply to reiterate on what many have already expressed:

Guns? Perfectly fine. Arranged, that is.

If I recall, didn't Zab use guns in a Dev-approved story?

Zabrak! wrote:
He chuckled again and slowly raised Beta. "I do have one more of these."

"I have two."

Delta and Epsilon whipped out from the concealed holsters on the insides of her thighs, and she calmly squeezed off four rounds into his chest.


Oh dear! Violence!


Actually, I see no reason why this should be censored. Once more: As long as it is predetermined that guns may be used, I see no problem with it whatsoever.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:49 pm 
Legend

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Well, this is the GI Joe problem. There's no way to feature a martial environment without deadly weapons, and there's only so many shots missing wildly before it gets comical, and we're concluding stories with admonishments to fast an hour before swimming.

The other thing is that this is a fairly mature game - although I think this is largely an artifact of our median player being bright enough to look down her nose at those cretins at MENSA. Mature, intelligent people are naturally drawn to creating and consuming fiction which is sophisticated and provocative (or in my case, crude approximations of same). There would be a very real absence in the appeal of the game if this aspect needed to be censored out.

But kids! It's nice to know that it's a big tent, and they keep us honest. Being circumspect, exercising discretion, and showing good taste are small prices to pay - some might say they'd be valuable things to keep in mind even without the kids in the room.

I have no children of my own, and thinking about what tools parents and guardians need to keep their precious snowflakes safe is a bit foreign to me. When I imagine an adult playing Skyrates with a child and reading the forums, I think what they'd do is look for some signals in advance about how age appropriate a story is. We can help this process out by mimicking the ratings from TV and movies; as soon as I post here I'm going to go edit my stories to include this, and I'd encourage others to do the same.

I would guess the reason that phil seems concerned about guns in RP and less so about fiction pieces is probably that one has to make a conscious and (theoretically) informed decision to read the longer form pieces. The RP tab is instantaneous - you can't assess whether it's going to be appropriate or not until you flip it open, and at that point it's too late. On top of that, to borrow an issue from the other threads going on about it right now, it can become monopolized by folks who take things in directions not all audiences are ready for. Again, I'm not particularly concerned about grown-ups potentially getting into distasteful, even violent subject matter - I tend to think this sort of thing is self-regulating and the disappointments are part of the process.

This is already too long, but I'll just add that about the only thing I can think of deal with the unique problems of an unknown RP tab is to advise in the tutorial that World chat is actively monitored to remain kid-friendly, but RP is somewhat looser and young children would probably not gain much from it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:17 pm 

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The guns are fine as long as they are not lethal weapons and any character should have plot immunety. All injury's should be healable over time and not be permanent n any way.

At least not in this game.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:16 am 

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Bon Zay wrote:
The guns are fine as long as they are not lethal weapons
Beyond converting them all to less-than-lethal rounds I can't really see how that would happen. Guns do tend to have the potential to be very lethal...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:34 pm 

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So... Balthasar carries 18 guns on him at all times, including a shotgun and a harpoon gun.

In other words: guns are totally necessary.


:smile: :red:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:17 pm 

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Tethran wrote:
Bon Zay wrote:
The guns are fine as long as they are not lethal weapons
Beyond converting them all to less-than-lethal rounds I can't really see how that would happen. Guns do tend to have the potential to be very lethal...
I believe he meant OOCly lethal. That sounds weird, but IC they would still be assumed to be lethal, but people would not actually be killed.

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 Post subject: Re: guns
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:46 pm 

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phil wrote:
when you do that to someone in RP, you have no idea how old the human on the other side of the screen is. i believe it is completely inappropriate to threaten the character of a little child. likewise, even if two grownups decide they want to roleplay a gunfight, that doesn't mean that there isn't a little kid watching.


I think the problem in this situation is that children that are not ready to handle the ideas of guns and violence - even in not-very-realistic settings with not-very-real consequences - are participating in a game where guns and violence have a very real presence. An obvious presence, I'd add.

Frankly, children probably shouldn't be in RP simply due to all the sexual content and weird people that hang out there, or because they should do something better with their time, or because this is "TEH INTARWEB" and people can, you know, type stuff that will appear on your screen.

If you want to be able to control what other people say and do, you should be writing fiction by yourself. It is the logical solution to all of these kinds of problems. And then other players can choose to, or not to, read your works.


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 Post subject: Re: guns
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:54 am 

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Grant wrote:
I think the problem in this situation is that children that are not ready to handle the ideas of guns and violence
Would you care to go and tell the news, the makers of 'childrens' TV programs and movies that?

Grant wrote:
Frankly, children probably shouldn't be in RP simply due to all the sexual content and weird people that hang out there
Examples would be nice here. If you're labelling the entireity of everyone that goes in the RP tab as "weird people" then I think you've probably just unfairly steriotyped and insulted a lot of them. As for sexual content I think you'll find that you won't find anything worse than PG really. The same goes for language (for which the worst I've seen without a warning is "Damn" which I can place in at least one film that was rated G in the US and PG in the UK.)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:32 am 

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I've seen worse than that.

My point isn't that these things are all inappropriate for children. My point is that IF you think they're inappropriate for children, and you are worried about even textual exposure, THEN you shouldn't be allowing your child to hang out on teh intarweb where the words other people write appear on your screen in real time (and a lot of forums/bulletin boards are off-limits, too).

So now I've expressed myself more coherently.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:59 pm 

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A little late off the mark, but:
I just saw the poll and decided to vote...
To answer your original question, Phil, neither (originally) 'Fairy' Tale involved guns. Although most young children today don't have the capacity to deal with extreme violence, an Axe (Peter&tW) is a far more violent tool when used on humans than a gun is. A gun just tries to kill people. Axe wounds maim, usually permanently. But Kids in the 1800s in Europe were used to this, and to violence in life generally.

I don't like guns, not just because they have become 'the' choice symbol of violence, but having been very close to their effects on humans, I don't won't, ever again, if'n I can avoid it. I'd almost rather see a car crash. I don't use the radio or RP much, as I really don't have the time, but I had rather not see guns used in every day lingo. Behind the bar; in the back of front hall closet , no, up towards the right; in the gun room in the back of the garage, all cases locked, yeah.
A discernible presence, not an ever-present threat.
A warning in conversation, not a reaction,
even joking.
90

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:23 pm 

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I'd say, you can point a gun at anyone you want in RP... if you're willing to suffer the RP consequences. However, actually shooting (by which I mean hitting) another character clearly shouldn't happen without that player's OOC consent.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:51 pm 

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I think this should be a nonissue. really? it's not as if any of these "younger" players are seeing a graphic image of someone being shot with a gun, it's all text.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:23 am 

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This is a fascinating thread to read, especially because probably the majority of players come from the U.S.A, where the ability to possess a gun is a sanctified right, not even a privilege. In most other countries in the western world, the ownership of a gun is a privilege, bound by numerous legal ramifications. Heck, in Canada, if a judge binds you to a no firearms sentence, you can't even legally use a Paslode framing gun which use an explosive charge to fire the load (in this case a 3 1/2 " spike) (You can do serious damage to pigeons with that.)

That being said, we are at the beginning of a slippery slope. In KoL, for instance, I haven't yet seen a gun as a character weapon. Sporks, a heavy length of chain, and crossbows, yes; but guns, no. And in Skyrates, we attach guns to the aircraft, so they are fundamentally present. Its the taking of those artifacts into our own hands that seems to disturb many.

I've been held up at gunpoint several times (in Canada) and its not an experience I'd like to repeat, ever. And that alone gives me pause when the idea of fictionally shooting someone comes up. As has been famously quoted, 'Violence is the last resort of an intelligent man.' If people feel they need to use guns for RP, I'm resolved to let 'em. It demonstrates something.

And that being said, If guns are used in RP, and the respondent feels hard done by, they should just deny the situation ever came up:

/me shoots Acre0 with .66 magnum
Acre0: the gun melts and the bullet turns into a splat of lime-flavored Jello.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:32 am 

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This is a fascinating thread to read, especially because probably the majority of players come from the U.S.A, where the ability to possess a gun is a sanctified right, not even a privilege. In most other countries in the western world, the ownership of a gun is a privilege, bound by numerous legal ramifications. Heck, in Canada, if a judge binds you to a no firearms sentence, you can't even legally use a Paslode framing gun which use an explosive charge to fire the load (in this case a 3 1/2 " spike) (You can do serious damage to pigeons with that.)

That being said, we are at the beginning of a slippery slope. In KoL, for instance, I haven't yet seen a gun as a character weapon. Sporks, a heavy length of chain, and crossbows, yes; but guns, no. And in Skyrates, we attach guns to the aircraft, so they are fundamentally present. Its the taking of those artifacts into our own hands that seems to disturb many.

I've been held up at gunpoint several times (in Canada) and its not an experience I'd like to repeat, ever. And that alone gives me pause when the idea of fictionally shooting someone comes up. As has been famously quoted, 'Violence is the last resort of an intelligent man.' If people feel they need to use guns for RP, I'm resolved to let 'em. It demonstrates something.

And that being said, If guns are used in RP, and the respondent feels hard done by, they should just deny the situation ever came up:

/me shoots Acre0 with .66 magnum
Acre0: the gun melts and the bullet turns into a splat of lime-flavored Jello.

(Edit: I won't change the post, but the game I meant was not KoL, but Improbable Island.)

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Last edited by Ninety on Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:24 pm 

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Ninety wrote:
In KoL, for instance, I haven't yet seen a gun as a character weapon. Sporks, a heavy length of chain, and crossbows, yes; but guns, no.


I know this wasn't at all your point, but:
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Happiness
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Armgun
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/ind ... stercannon
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/ind ... ato_pistol


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Acero wrote:
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Potato_pistol


Hmm. If I ever get into RPing, that may have to be my weapon of choice.

Plus, if I miss, the potato might take root and sprout into a new potato plant! So it would be environmentally friendly!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent and ninjas.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:30 pm 

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Ninety wrote:
And that being said, If guns are used in RP, and the respondent feels hard done by, they should just deny the situation ever came up:

/me shoots Acre0 with .66 magnum
Acre0: the gun melts and the bullet turns into a splat of lime-flavored Jello.
Ironically one of the things that brought this situation up was one where a relatively new player came in and started shooting at other people. They then complained when they were shot in return, doing their best to ignore the responses despite having started the situation themselves. (It was the point where they tried to 1) dodge a shotgun at close range whilst firing lethal shots at people. Again. 2) take a shotgun hit at close range without suffering more than scratches.) The phrase 'live by the sword, die by the sword' comes to mind, unfortunately a few people seem to think it should mean 'live by the sword, have others die by it' with no repercussions to themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:01 am 
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Live by the sword, die by the revolver... Indiana Jones, anyone?


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