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planes next round
http://skyrates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4973
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Author:  phil [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  planes next round

here's what we're thinking so far: more tiers of less planes.

C = combat
T = trade
P = performance
Up = upgrade: kind of like the mantis but not as broken--lots of slots, (relatively) poor/balanced base stats, expensive
Stock = fixed/stock: the opposite of upgrade--very reasonable price, good all-rounders, little or no upgradeability.

Code:
0   -   CR-4P

1   C   Mastiff
1   T   Nomad
1   P   Thor

2   C   Valkyrie
2   T   KittyHawk
2   P   Marauder

3   C   Mkii
3   T   Halifax
3   P   Requin
3   S   Chapparal

4   C   Phantom
4   T   Cyclops
4   P   Loki
4   U   Excelsior

5   C   Seahawk
5   T   Barracuda
5   P   Mantis
5   U   Dauntless

6   C   Hades
6   T   BullFrog
6   P   Cetacea
6   S   Bolo

7   C   Vengeance
7   T   Leviathan
7   P   Havoc
7   S   Seafire

8   C   Bismarck
8   T   Lancaster
8   P   Nova
8   U   Mantis

9   C   Thunderbolt
9   T   KingFisher
9   P   Ingersoll
9   S   Spectre

undecided...
?   C   Avenger
?   T   "Gibraltar"
?   P   "Barashiki"
?   U/S "Hayao"  (needs to be modeled and is unlikely to be added very soon)


We are expecting to put the planes from the winners of the legacy operation into the game, but haven't decided where/how yet. I think it's unlikely we'll simply put them on the end of the progression, because the designs don't "feel" like high-tier planes (except for the super-zep)

detailed stats are not being shown here for a couple reasons: (1) they don't exist yet (2) we hope that the system will change; we want to get all the D20-oriented stats onto a scale to 100 (or 1000) under the hood. (3) the team decided on the call the other day not to share those. I personally think we should share them right away, but as always I respect my teammates' wishes. We did agree to have a scheduled rebalancing discussion/event for approximately 3-4 weeks into the new round, to correct the inevitable oversights.

This thread is to allow you guys a chance to critique the new direction for planes, and to discuss the progression. for example how long do we want it to take to advance all the way through to tier 9?

-PL-

Author:  Kyrio [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

Is this in order? Cause I'm wondering why the Spectre is at the top...

Author:  Atomsk [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

The avenger has mysteriously disappeared? Copyright issues with the Fairchild-Republic mayhaps?

Author:  phil [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:45 pm ]
Post subject: 

spectre is returning to its rightful position of glory. i think the avenger might have just fallen out of my copy/paste, if it's missing...

Author:  Fenriq [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

phil wrote:
spectre is returning to its rightful position of glory.

Damn Skippy.

Author:  phil [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

actually, no; it's missing from the spreadsheet entirely. it will probably remain high-tier combat, and some stuff shuffled down to make room for it.

also, i'd consider tier 10 because it's a round number, and we should have a couple more planes to add.

-PL-

Author:  Moros [ Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

I listed my initial thoughts for a long round (like this one) and a shorter round (~6 months). This would be for a casual to semi-active player who averages about 1 hr/day total.
Tier 0->2: Within two weeks (1 week)
Tier 2->4: Within a month (2 weeks)
Tier 4->6: Within two months (1 month)
Tier 6->7: Within three-four months (1.5 months)
Tier 7->8: Within six months (2.5 months)
Tier 8->9: Within eight months (3.5 months)
Tier 9->10: Within a year (5 months)
This is assuming that kits have been tossed, planes are more balanced as to the improvements gained by each tier. I would actually advocate something similar to what we have now, with the planes at the top granting smaller bonuses. The difference is with more tiers, players will spend a longer time in the "progress" phase. There is no easy solution, but the idea of upgrading to a new plane every few weeks, then every month or so is appealing, as it keeps everyone moving and interested in stuff.

I may edit or repost as new ideas/feedback emerges.

Author:  Markus Jarnhann [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 

Phil,

You have the mantis listed twice.

Once as a Tier 5 performance craft, and once as a Tier 8 upgrade craft.

Author:  Mairi [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 

Seems the Mantis appears twice, Tier 5 perf and Tier 8 upgrade...

[edit: dangit. Markus beat me to it]

Author:  Calvin [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: planes next round

phil wrote:
undecided...
? C Avenger
? T "Gibraltar"
? P "Barashiki"
? U/S "Hayao" (needs to be modeled and is unlikely to be added very soon)
Hmm, couldn't these fit nicely into a "U" or "S" in other tiers? Or are you wanting to limit (most) tiers to 4 planes?

Author:  Joseph Whitcherell [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:53 am ]
Post subject: 

Part of me wonders if it's intentional, Markus. Kinda like the Valkyrie and the Mk. II?

Author:  Zabrak! [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 

I like the concept, but as difficult as it is to evaluate absent stats, it's impossible without two additional pieces of information:

First, are the arcs not changing?

Second, will kits be limited to one per plane?

Author:  Raegune [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 

I like the greater # of tiers. I also support the addition of the stock plane class that needs little/no upgrading. Making more planes the upgrade type is also good. I like to have more variety, and by making more tiers, I think you can have more choices to make throughout the game.

I hope the advancement up the new tiers is also more time balanced. I know my experience isn't representative because I never downgraded to kit, but I spent WAY (unreasonably) more time at T5 than in all the others combined. My time spent in each tier was 12-25-64-91-343-2796 hours. I spent more than 5 times the hours in my dauntless than I did in all the other tiers combined, much less just T4. I was saving for a 3kitted T6, so I imagine it would have been in the 4000hr+ range before I got there. It seems like the first couple of tiers double the amount of time taken per tier, then all of a sudden there's a huge jump. Is that what you were aiming for? If so, what a waste of perfectly good planes at the lower tiers! I'd rather have more choices later on if this wil continue to be the case. 2-3 planes per tier earlier, 5-6 planes/tier later.

Also coming to mind is: how are the upgrades are going to affect the planes? If you have stock, upgrademonster, and T/P/C planes, how far in tier-comparative effectiveness will these upgrades allow planes to advance? Will a stock plane instantly fly like an unmodded T/P/C plane in the next tier, but a T/P/C will be modifiable such that it can perform like an unmodded T/P/C from 2 tiers up? What about the umonsters? Upgradable effectively 3-4 tiers compared to an unmodded T/P/C?

Lastly, with regards to the time taken to get all the way to the very end, fully upgraded last tier, It should be about the amout of time it is now. I've been pretty happy with that aspect. I didn't start from the beginning, but it took me from April, I believe, to make it from cr4p to 1Kit T6 (would have saved 3Kit, but I ran out of time). So 6-8 or so months total time to the very end would be great. Moros' time scale seems about right now that I look at it. Hooray for Moros, well said.

Well, that's my two cents. I've run out of steam! Thoughts?

Author:  Bon Zay [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 

First off, I like the concept of haveing more tiers.

Secondly, I'm sceptic to the amount of upgradeable planes at relatively low levels. A lot of slots won't do any good if you can't carry the weight around to fill them all.

Level 8 is the highest tier that has a upgrade plane, maybe this will change when level 10 is brought out?

The stock planes have no upgrade but are cheaper? I hope that is cheaper then an equivalant upgrade plane that is fully kitted out. Otherwise aren't you paying twice the money? Just a thought tho.

Does this also mean that the combat, performance and trade planes have no upgrade slots or are they just limited?

Author:  Burrito Loco [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 

Upgrade is back! :woodman:

Also, I'm split, I'd like to see the Avenger remain the top dog in combat, but sadly that means it will break my bank :sad:

Author:  Atomsk [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

I just noticed that the ceta is listed as a perf plane. :shock:

Author:  Circle [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

But.. but.. mah precious Mk-II.. its so low in the tiers..

Am I the only one that likes the idea of having a wide selection of top end planes? I want there to be a variety of valid plane options at levels where people will be flying for a while, just so you don't see the same 3 planes everywhere. Having just the listed three or four kinds for the first few tiers is fine, but I would still like to see something like the current hybrid classes near the top of the list. Or alternately, if the top few tiers are close enough in stats to be competitive with eachother, that would be a reasonable way to handle it. The point is to give people the ability to pick a plane they like for reasons other than needing it in order to be effective. A bow to our sense of individuality and asthetics. If we implement a change to the upgrade system where you can keep pouring more money into a low level plane to keep it competitive, that would probably be optimal.

(And either way, if you need more planes to fill out the list, there is always my "honorable mention" plane)

Author:  phil [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

I love that plane and lobbied for it hard then and will again.

-PL-

Author:  Blue Vast [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Circle wrote:
Am I the only one that likes the idea of having a wide selection of top end planes? I want there to be a variety of valid plane options at levels where people will be flying for a while, just so you don't see the same 3 planes everywhere. Having just the listed three or four kinds for the first few tiers is fine, but I would still like to see something like the current hybrid classes near the top of the list. Or alternately, if the top few tiers are close enough in stats to be competitive with eachother, that would be a reasonable way to handle it. The point is to give people the ability to pick a plane they like for reasons other than needing it in order to be effective. A bow to our sense of individuality and asthetics. If we implement a change to the upgrade system where you can keep pouring more money into a low level plane to keep it competitive, that would probably be optimal.


I like what Circle has to say here. I've been flying in a mantis for months now, and I like the flight screen, but it's awful having to see the mantis bobbing up and down in the sky.

:sad:

Author:  Zabrak! [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:36 am ]
Post subject: 

Blue Vast wrote:
I've been flying in a mantis for months now, and I like the flight screen, but it's awful having to see the mantis bobbing up and down in the sky.

More to the point, it's awful seeing nothing but Mantises bobbing about the trade, fame, and inf boards.

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