Register / Log in

Server Costs Aug

Ends in 10 days 0%
It is currently Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:34 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: range fixes
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:31 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
EDIT: grounding and upgrade will occur 2/17 at 3PM GMT, 10AM EST

yo. as first announced here the map has been redesigned with a number of new things in mind.

Without further ado, here's a screenshot from our mapbuilding tool.
Image
The colored arcs between each skyland or station indicate the tier required tier to get to it. The planes in each tier will have no less range than the slider at left indicates.
(sorry for all the indisguishable shades, color-blind people)

Here are the plane ranges I'm mulling over so far.
Code:
+------+--------------------+------+
|    0 | CR-4P              |  200 |
|    1 | Mastiff            |  330 |
|    1 | Nomad              |  479 |
|    1 | Thor               |  402 |
|    2 | Valkyrie           |  470 |
|    2 | KittyHawk          |  696 |
|    2 | Marauder           |  577 |
|    3 | Mkii               |  645 |
|    3 | Halifax            |  920 |
|    3 | Requin             |  779 |
|    3 | Chapparal          |  740 |
|    4 | Phantom            |  818 |
|    4 | Cyclops            | 1170 |
|    4 | Loki               | 1017 |
|    4 | Excelsior          |  915 |
|    5 | Seahawk            |  998 |
|    5 | Barracuda          | 1410 |
|    5 | Mantis             | 1243 |
|    5 | Dauntless          | 1104 |
|    6 | Hades              | 1181 |
|    6 | BullFrog           | 1702 |
|    6 | Cetacea            | 1428 |
|    6 | Bolo               | 1337 |
|    7 | Vengeance          | 1346 |
|    7 | Leviathan          | 1937 |
|    7 | Havoc              | 1681 |
|    7 | Seafire            | 1528 |
|    8 | Avenger            | 1544 |
|    8 | Lancaster          | 2313 |
|    8 | Nova               | 1856 |
|    8 | Bismarck           | 1719 |
|    9 | Thunderbolt        | 1725 |
|    9 | KingFisher         | 2472 |
|    9 | Ingersoll          | 2154 |
|    9 | Spectre            | 1971 |
+------+--------------------+------+


Now, I have not studied the effects of fuel efficiency on these numbers in detail. If anyone would like to comment, that'd be welcome. I just wanted to make sure that planes could get to such-and-such skyland without any further bonuses; those who can get further by upgrades (in the future) or skills or natural range boosts, great. But everyone will be able to get this far at least.

I'm not sure yet whether i should repaint the danger map. I do want the "shortcuts" across the center of the circles to be a risky trip that a trader doesn't make without careful consideration. But right now, they're quite black.

comments and thoughts welcome. plane ranges are more likely to change than skyland locations.

when this (or a later draft) goes into effect, everyone will be grounded at the skyland they last took off from. I'm tentatively scheduling that for tomorrow night, but I don't care if it's put off a bit for the purposes of feedback / iteration.

enjoy. sorry this took me so long, it's a busy life.

-PL-


Last edited by phil on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:43 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
thanks to the contributors in this thread and this one. I listened to your suggestions, which you should hopefully see working in the new core.

In other places, i intentionally placed the stations offline from a perfect line so that as you tier up, you can cut corners off of triangles and benefit from shorter routes, not just flying the old ones faster.

-PL-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:57 am
Posts: 511
Location: Playing with The Mechanic
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Yay, go phil!
At a first glance, that looks vastly better connected in many places than the current map; and with high FE on the top tier planes I can see some other very nice potential paths opening up, specially around the middle zone and to/from Grotto and Uur. In fact, given the Fisher has about 750km more range than the lowest t9 (tbolt) - KF pilots will already have much more route potential than the colored lines are indicating.

As far as the danger map goes, I can't really picture how it'd overlay in my head but having to go through really deep black to get the best shortcuts is perfectly fine in my book.

_________________
Wing Commander Valarauka of the Crimson Armada
Post Aviation, Engineering Division


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:30 pm 
Cupid

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 1391
Faction: Jade Hand

Offline
*whistles appreciatively* Looking good, phil!

Valarauka wrote:
As far as the danger map goes, I can't really picture how it'd overlay in my head but having to go through really deep black to get the best shortcuts is perfectly fine in my book.


Yes please! Having things "off" the danger map, like Grottopolis is now, looks a little funny... but having to go through very dangerous areas suits me just fine!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:50 am
Posts: 18
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Cool. The bolo has 1337 range. Looks good btw.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 599
Faction: Flight School
Offline
This looks pretty good. The range discrepancy between combat and trade is distressingly large, but probably about right. Uprades, when they arrive, will probably round things out better as well.

_________________
Image
Gen. Moros, Echo Squadron


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 779
Faction: Azure League

Offline
I love the map layout and new routes. No longer is there one path between each group of skylands.

The general channel and I suggest that combat and perf ranges be reconsidered and swapped. There's no good explanation for perfs having longer hunts or the ability to take shortcuts, while combats rather need those.

_________________
Pilot-in-Command, Our Chief Export Is Violence III
Incarnation of Industry
Angels' wings are icing over, McDonnell Douglas olive drab. They bear the names of our sweethearts, and the captain smiles, as we crash.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:39 pm 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
Looks fine to me.

I would suggest, in terms of the bonuses for Fuel Efficiency, that the following legs, which phil has as unreachable in a FE0 TBolt (1725 km), be close enough that they are navigable legs with a TBolt with maxed FE (a 25% bonus, or 2156 km).

Uur - Fuel I
Fuel II - Fuel III
Fuel I - Fuel IV
Fuel IV - Islo
Alpha IV - Romeo
Fuseli - Fuel V
Fuel V - Fuel VI
Fuel VI - Fuel VII

Those are not, of course, the actual names of those fuel stations, but rather the ones I just made up for purposes of this list. They correspond to the following map.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 112
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Navvy wrote:
The general channel and I suggest that combat and perf ranges be reconsidered and swapped. There's no good explanation for perfs having longer hunts or the ability to take shortcuts, while combats rather need those.


The gap in ranges within tiers might be a bit much, but I can't really agree with that. Combat will likely have longer hunts anyway, due to speed (as they should), and shortcuts would fit a perf more than an combat; fast transit between places is one of the points of a perf, and not being able to use the better shortcuts would remove that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 115
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Huh, I didn't think I was color blind, but I just can't grok that map at all. Would it be possible to post the lengths of the lines plotted there?

Anyway, my thoughts:

1. The minimum range to each all skylands within a Flight License level should be less than the range to reach any in the next. (The current map had FL3 skylands that were easier to reach than some FL1 ones.)

2. Every plane in tier N (with level N/2 Fuel Eff) should be able to reach at least one skyland selling each of the tier N+1 planes.

3. Danger map: the core should be safe, the rim should be risky. Blank spots in the danger map should be centered on skylands, not out in the middle of nowhere.

4. Mission givers need to stop asking me to go places I don't have a flight license for. (Especially all those lovely high-inf missions to Uurwerk.)

5. Once you're done balancing the planes and map, someone should rewrite the descriptions of the planes and skylands.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:24 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
zabs, i strongly suspect that most of those routes you've burned fire into will be reachable. that screenshot was taken with only the 2 closest jumps shown. uur -> "fuel 1" may be pushing it but most of the rest will be in range, i think. i can check tomorrow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:30 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
Loxus wrote:
1. The minimum range to each all skylands within a Flight License level should be less than the range to reach any in the next. (The current map had FL3 skylands that were easier to reach than some FL1 ones.)

I'm sorry, I completely disagree. Breaking up the mirroring of flight license and range was a main goal this round in general.

Loxus wrote:
2. Every plane in tier N (with level N/2 Fuel Eff) should be able to reach at least one skyland selling each of the tier N+1 planes.

agreed. my sale layout tool is supposed to ensure that. If it's not, please point out the problems and we can resolve them on a case-by-case basis. I added a sale of the T4 combat plane because mkii's range was so bad already.

Loxus wrote:
3. Danger map: the core should be safe, the rim should be risky. Blank spots in the danger map should be centered on skylands, not out in the middle of nowhere.

I don't know what you mean by blank spots. low-risk areas? that should already be the case; if it's not, let me know and i can try to fix it. keep in mind that a certain amount of variation out there is intentional. (everywhere, in fact.)

Loxus wrote:
4. Mission givers need to stop asking me to go places I don't have a flight license for. (Especially all those lovely high-inf missions to Uurwerk.)

agreed.

Loxus wrote:
5. Once you're done balancing the planes and map, someone should rewrite the descriptions of the planes and skylands.

agreed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:01 pm 
Cupid

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 1391
Faction: Jade Hand

Offline
phil wrote:
Loxus wrote:
3. Danger map: the core should be safe, the rim should be risky. Blank spots in the danger map should be centered on skylands, not out in the middle of nowhere.

I don't know what you mean by blank spots. low-risk areas? that should already be the case; if it's not, let me know and i can try to fix it. keep in mind that a certain amount of variation out there is intentional. (everywhere, in fact.)


Yay for variation! It's definitely nice to have some Skylands you can plot dangerous hunts around. I know someone who joined the Jade Hand simply because it was the capital with the best hunting grounds. :grin:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 115
Faction: Flight School
Offline
phil wrote:
Loxus wrote:
3. Danger map: the core should be safe, the rim should be risky. Blank spots in the danger map should be centered on skylands, not out in the middle of nowhere.

I don't know what you mean by blank spots. low-risk areas? that should already be the case; if it's not, let me know and i can try to fix it. keep in mind that a certain amount of variation out there is intentional. (everywhere, in fact.)

These are the places that made me wonder if the skylands were rearranged after the danger map was drawn:

Image Image Image Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:06 pm 
Helpful

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:32 pm
Posts: 1767
Faction: Azure League

Offline
Hey phil, still eagerly awaiting the next dangermap update. It's possible Loxus' remarks would go away if he could see the real dangermap?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:07 pm 
Min-Maxer

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:05 am
Posts: 210
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
The range for combat planes looks too small compared to the perfs, particularly between the T-bolt and Inger. 429 km is a massive difference. Bumping combats up might be worthwhile. I don't want them swapped or anything, just the combats bumped up to about where the upgrade/stock planes are, maybe a little less.

Maybe the same to upgrade/stock planes, there's not a lot of appeal to them. Having lower range than perfs won't make them look all that great. Considering they're pretty average compared to perfs already. While it does make narrative sense for perfs to have more range, right now, that's probably not a good idea. Post upgrades, sure, but right now, there's very little appeal to stock/upgrade planes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:05 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Utah
Faction: Flight School
Offline
I agree that the combats need more range. If there are shortcuts that need long ranges that will also be very dangerous then the combat pilots will want to go there to hunt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:54 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 391
Faction: Flight School
Offline
I on the other hand, think the range for combat planes is fine.

Last round I was always sort of alarmed at how all-around good the combat planes were. Giving them the shortest range, and having that range actually make a difference* in the top-end, seems like a fine trade-off for a pilot to have to consider.


*the high tier ranges made no difference last round, because of kits that let you cross half the map in one jump, no matter what you were flying.


[edit] Oh, I forgot to mention. I'm curious what the distance between Romeo and that fuel station west of it works out to be. From a casual glance at the map, it looks like there should be a green line there.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:10 pm 
Dev Eyepatch

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:32 am
Posts: 1040
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Combat planes are already nerfed compared to the other planes in their tier by having the lowest CKPH, Circle.

_________________
Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to. What we do in life, echoes in eternity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 779
Faction: Azure League

Offline
From the Loki upward, with two notably broken exceptions, there are no strong reasons to choose a combat plane instead of a perf. This round isn't last round, the combat rigs aren't the all-around planes.

I'm not sure about the narrative reasons for the perfs to have more range. Their small fuel tanks and large engines would cut that down. It turns into a game balance thing, doesn't it? The two broken perfs may as well have great range, they're big enough to excuse it.

_________________
Pilot-in-Command, Our Chief Export Is Violence III
Incarnation of Industry
Angels' wings are icing over, McDonnell Douglas olive drab. They bear the names of our sweethearts, and the captain smiles, as we crash.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group