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 Post subject: Influence game
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:35 am 
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I really like the citizenship idea, and doubling fees for multi-Skyland citizenship. A Skyland-centric influence bias enables many RP options as well as fostering camaraderie, strategic planning and coordinated game play.

Slight site-specific bonuses, say 1%, could be given to citizens of a Skyland, and maybe you must become a citizen in order to join a Wing on that Skyland as well, since Wings are by nature exclusive groups.

Increased "value" for Wings is also promising. "Defenders of Gonk" title for the Wing with the most kills, for example. "Ministers of Gonk" title for the Wing with most influence, as another example. "Guild Masters of Gonk", for trade, and maybe "Sage Council of Gonk" for the Wing with the most flight time. I don't know why I used Gonk as the example, maybe this whole idea is Gonked? ;) Oh well, for what it's worth,

cheers all,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:49 am 
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I really like Istatay's proposed system of factional policy, for various reasons she and others have raised.

I'd like to see the decisions be able to be made by the various factional decision-making systems, if there were a way of interpreting those into this, to help us really feel that the Republic uses a different process than the Empire or the Conclave. But that could probably be handled internally by the factions, if there were some way of reporting the results to the system?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:01 am 

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I agree that the different faction's should have different ways of making the decisions. For the Hand, I think it would be a quorum if 3/5 of the Cabinet members voted a certain way, after polling the faction, the League probably would be a majority vote of all the members, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:58 am 

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Maybe posts besides governor could be earned with different degrees of influence. Each level could award you with a higher level of tax cut on that particular skyland. Start out with something like Good Samaritan then proceed through Pillar of the Community, Council Member, Civic Commissioner, etc. and on up to Governor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:23 am 
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Istatay wrote:
For example, if the Crimson Armada has the most combat-friendly benefits, then the more control they have on a skyland, the better it is for combat pilots. If you're a combat pilot, joining the Armada would then mean that each mission you run makes Skytopia just a little better for you and the way you play, even if it's losing. If you're not a combat pilot, there's no reason at all to jump ship, even if the Armada is winning .


This strikes me as encouraging a positive feedback loop that would cause playstyle to dictate faction. This itself is a concept I feel that we need to quite strongly avoid.


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 Post subject: Re: Influence game
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:30 am 
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Kanamdso wrote:
I really like the citizenship idea, and doubling fees for multi-Skyland citizenship. A Skyland-centric influence bias enables many RP options as well as fostering camaraderie, strategic planning and coordinated game play.


Citizenship is nice, but at the moment it does not seem to encourage cooperative/competitive play.

In regard to official governments of factions, I am right now quite unsure of that. It is an option that does not seem to scale well, and I am unsure what power that would actually provide. Not to mention the implementation time for various specific forms of government is unfortunate and may be better spent elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Influence game
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:37 am 

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Kanamdso wrote:
I really like the citizenship idea, and doubling fees for multi-Skyland citizenship. A Skyland-centric influence bias enables many RP options as well as fostering camaraderie, strategic planning and coordinated game play.

Slight site-specific bonuses, say 1%, could be given to citizens of a Skyland, and maybe you must become a citizen in order to join a Wing on that Skyland as well, since Wings are by nature exclusive groups.

Increased "value" for Wings is also promising. "Defenders of Gonk" title for the Wing with the most kills, for example. "Ministers of Gonk" title for the Wing with most influence, as another example. "Guild Masters of Gonk", for trade, and maybe "Sage Council of Gonk" for the Wing with the most flight time. I don't know why I used Gonk as the example, maybe this whole idea is Gonked? ;) Oh well, for what it's worth,

cheers all,


I like it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:51 am 
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Wing Titles = :grin:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:10 am 

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Ever thougt of involving all sides of the game into influence game?

In real life people, who earn a lot of money gain influence too, like people , who help others out.
I know that the traiding missions are a try to get it in, but wouldn't it be nice if people who are just trader could help a faction.
Same for combats. If you shoot down a lot of pirates you gain respect on those islands...

And that would give the opportunity to give factions a character:
Jade Hand for example has allways claimed to be trade-orientated. So maybe a multiplier would solve that problem.
And the Armada gets its for resolved combats...

It's just a shot into the blue :razz:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:22 am 
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paranoid wrote:
Ever thougt of involving all sides of the game into influence game?

In real life people, who earn a lot of money gain influence too, like people , who help others out.
I know that the traiding missions are a try to get it in, but wouldn't it be nice if people who are just trader could help a faction.
Same for combats. If you shoot down a lot of pirates you gain respect on those islands...

And that would give the opportunity to give factions a character:
Jade Hand for example has allways claimed to be trade-orientated. So maybe a multiplier would solve that problem.
And the Armada gets its for resolved combats...

It's just a shot into the blue :razz:


I agree with this. However, what's interesting is that when this was previously proposed, some people disagreed with it because there were treaties like, "Red faction will not run influence on X Skyland" -- however people still wanted to trade/fight there.

A method of having both would be nice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:41 am 

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I don't play influence because there's NO in-game benefits. No factional discounts, no rewards, nothing.
I'd play if there were factional benefits, if it really meant something.
And I think you ought make the fuel skylets look like a standard skyland, a little abandoned island thing, something that can be won for inflence or bought. And then you can name it! That'd be great!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:41 am 

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I think there could be more of a random event element inserted into the influence game. Something like "The people of Aleut have revolted and kicked out the Blue Faction that had controlled it, they want change, no, they demand change." And resetting that Skyland's influence to zero, effectively creating a brand new race there. Or, "The Pirates have laid claim to Tortuga, the government is in ruins. Won't a faction come and clear out these scurvy dogs for us?"

To keep from unfairly targeting any one faction, until all the others had suffered a similar reset, they couldn't get one again.

I don't think personal influence should be affected in such a scenario though maybe it could be halved or something.

And I really like the idea of in-game benefits for Skyland control.

I'd also like to see capitals made much more difficult to take. In one of the recent threads about the Arcadia/Fuseli battle, I suggested influence multipliers for the faction that calls the Skyland home.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:53 am 

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Yeah, I'm thinking completely zeroing out a faction's influence is a bad idea. Maybe halving the difference between them and the next closest faction, but to completely screw over factions on a regular basis I think would piss everyone off with no real benefit.

Also, this unfairly biases the factions with fewer skylands. Red, losing all the influence at one of their skylands right now, for instance, wouldn't have much of an impact, they still have 16 more. Take away all the influence at one of Brown's skylands, on the other hand, and it has a much bigger impact.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:56 am 
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Acero wrote:
Yeah, I'm thinking completely zeroing out a faction's influence is a bad idea. Maybe halving the difference between them and the next closest faction, but to completely screw over factions on a regular basis I think would piss everyone off with no real benefit.


Randomly zeroing out a faction's influence I think is bad. Random changes of that nature can feel unfortunate and arbitrary. Especially if it effects just one group.

However...let's say that the pirates were running influence as well, and if ever they overtook a Skyland, that zeroed out everyone's influence there. Or the revolt thing happens, such that all factions not in control of that skyland now get a boost of influence gains there for 24 hours.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:58 am 

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Pirates randomly running at various locations could be interesting. II think it would make it so even with treaties and whatnot the game would never get too stagnant.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:09 pm 

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Chesterfield Taft wrote:
Acero wrote:
Yeah, I'm thinking completely zeroing out a faction's influence is a bad idea. Maybe halving the difference between them and the next closest faction, but to completely screw over factions on a regular basis I think would piss everyone off with no real benefit.


Randomly zeroing out a faction's influence I think is bad. Random changes of that nature can feel unfortunate and arbitrary. Especially if it effects just one group.

However...let's say that the pirates were running influence as well, and if ever they overtook a Skyland, that zeroed out everyone's influence there. Or the revolt thing happens, such that all factions not in control of that skyland now get a boost of influence gains there for 24 hours.

I think something like this could be a great addition, especially if the danger map shifted along with the Skyland attacks.

I really like the idea of short term boosts after a revolt!

For what its worth, Acero, I wasn't too crazy about zeroing out influence. But some kind of random events would add some needed spice to the influence game. Anytime any numbers are chopped it is going to piss off players. I think I prefer the idea of temporary boosts to gains instead.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:17 pm 

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Chesterfield Taft wrote:
This strikes me as encouraging a positive feedback loop that would cause playstyle to dictate faction. This itself is a concept I feel that we need to quite strongly avoid.

Ah; good point. While the factions themselves would define the playstyles, there would still be a particular style linked to each faction. Making factional influence affect the game world for everybody fixes the issue of migration to the winning side, but it does link faction identity to faction policy. It seems like it would be true for any system that lets factions choose how to affect the world: each faction would have an agenda, which would define it.

So, the question is: is it a problem to have factions defined by how they want to change the world, or do we just want to avoid linking factions with playstyles?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:26 pm 
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I would like to see the pirates as a serious control threat. Even if there's no mechanical difference by which faction controls a skyland, I'd like it to be arranged so that everybody has an incentive to keep it out of the hands of the pirates. That would add a cooperative aspect to the influence game - and during an event where the pirate attacks are particularly strong, we might see the factions make treaties which Skylands to defend, just so that they can keep all of them under colorful flag.

I think a big part of the factional identity is already based on what they prize most for the future of the world. Blue sees a Skytopia where everyone can choose their own direction, but Brown sees a Second Kingdom of Magnus where everyone has what they need to get by, even if that requires constraining some people's options.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:30 pm 

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The trick, then, is figuring out how to take the existing factional identities and goals, and make it so the world will shift that direction depending on influence. I'm drawing a blank at the moment, but I'll check back in if I think of something.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Istatay wrote:
So, the question is: is it a problem to have factions defined by how they want to change the world, or do we just want to avoid linking factions with playstyles?


Well here's a fun question.

How does a faction define how they want to change the world? If you're talking RP philosophy, there's a bit of that in the flavor text.

If we're talking about the specific people in it, right now, it happens via just the agreed upon actions of the people. Does there need to be more to that? Does it need an official leader? A PC leader? What happens if people don't do what that person says?


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