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Hidden War Changes Discussion
http://skyrates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8894
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Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Hidden War Changes Discussion

Discuss things here.

Author:  nehp [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

I'll make the changes in the list/map tracking later today (Tuesday).

Are all 'lingers' 24hours?

Author:  KarHallarn [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Just a quickie, "Penalty for Multiple" makes it sound like that's the penalty reduction for using the power more than once, which for numbers like 90% would be insane. Perhaps call it "Diminished Return"?

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

KarHallarn wrote:
Just a quickie, "Penalty for Multiple" makes it sound like that's the penalty reduction for using the power more than once, which for numbers like 90% would be insane. Perhaps call it "Diminished Return"?


I had a heck of a time trying to figure out what to call the silly thing. Diminished Return is sounding pretty good to me. Anyone else have a suggestion?

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

nehp wrote:
Are all 'lingers' 24hours?


No. Lingering effects are based on whatever the duration is for the ability. This tends to vary from 12 hours - 2 days, with most things in the 1 day area.

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Faction Leaders, do remind me of if you want some more transport powers. We can't do variable size just now, but I can add a few more set amounts. I know we discussed this at some point, but I can't find it.

Author:  Kippei [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

"Diminished Return" sounds like a great name!

I love the boost to Fortify. Having it be twice as strong as Arm will make it potentially quite useful.

I looooove Scout Expedition being so fast now. Nine and a half hours from A13 to A1 makes that bunny much more usable. It looks like most skylands ought to be reachable within four hours.

Having things last for 48 hours instead of 37.9167 hours is functionally the same and much prettier. I like it.

If anyone is curious, Sabotage Run now takes away 325k of the Fleet's power, instead of the original 250k and intermediate 6%. It also got cheaper, although it has a diminishing return now, of course.

Speaking of, you said that diminished returns "is a penalty that occurs to an ability depending on how many are currently active on that skyland." Does that mean that I can get around that for Sabotage Run by just having each one go to a different skyland at full strength?

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

For now, yes. That's something we were curious to play with. If it becomes too powerful that way, we may reduce the hit to overall power.

Author:  Kippei [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Sounds good! I just wanted to make sure I understood.

I noticed you also increased the inf Sabotage Run gives, which gives some motivation to use it on particularly tumultuous skylands. After all, one usage of SR gives 100k inf at that particular skyland while reducing inf gain there by only 6.5k.

Author:  Turbo Lance [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Chesterfield Taft wrote:
KarHallarn wrote:
Just a quickie, "Penalty for Multiple" makes it sound like that's the penalty reduction for using the power more than once, which for numbers like 90% would be insane. Perhaps call it "Diminished Return"?


I had a heck of a time trying to figure out what to call the silly thing. Diminished Return is sounding pretty good to me. Anyone else have a suggestion?


What does Penalty = 100 mean? does that mean no penalty or total penalty? Niether "Penalty" or "Diminishing Returns" wording is helping us decipher.

Items we know do stack perfectly have Penalty=0 (Like Fortify and Blessed Cache)
Items we know are intended to have penalty for stack have a value = 50 or 80 or 90 (Like Raids and Dangerous Theatrics)

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

You're right. It is confusing. Let me fiddle around with some things tonight to make it clearer.

Author:  Kalin [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Since the legendary pirates are officially allies, wouldn't it make sense to stop getting non-Fleet Legendaries?

I like the term "Diminished Return", and agree that it should count the effects at the target, not the source.

What about a "Transport All" action, costing 10%? I assume that's what we want to do 99% of the time.

Author:  nehp [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Quote:
Path of Lights - Now will take a percentage of the influence gained on target skyland, and distribute that evenly to all neighboring skylands (so we take X% of the base influence, and divide that between the neighbors)

So if 30,000 influence is landed for a skyland with Path and four neighbors:
* 20,000 would apply to that skyland
* 2,500 would apply to each of the four neighbors

Is that correct?
This is post diplo/plane effect bonus?
Does this still include a raw influence bump?

Quote:
Armed Blockade - Reduces influence bleed from neighboring skylands by 30%. Has a duration and a penalty for multiple.

The initial info said it could reduce influence bleed *out* as well, which was what made this so appealing. Has that been removed? If so, we'll have to pay very close attention to the cost on this one.

Quote:
Purge the Wicked - Now is an Influence over time ability. Lasts for a very long time, but in that period will accrue a healthy amount of influence.

Can someone give me the amount/time length?

Quote:
Infiltration - Slight buff in power.
Sabotage Run - Now does a set number hit to the overall power of the Fleet as opposed to a percentage.

Can someone give me the numbers?

Quote:
Scientific Precision - Now, instead of eliminating presence, it nullifies it. The presence still counts towards the Fleet's overall presence, but will not gain influence for the Fleet. Has a duration and a multiple penalty.

Does this still include a raw influence bump?

Author:  Kippei [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Nehp, check the Faction Powers spreadsheet. I know Green and Brown updated it, and it looks like Purple has too.

Author:  nehp [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Kippei wrote:
Nehp, check the Faction Powers spreadsheet. I know Green and Brown updated it, and it looks like Purple has too.


I gave up on trusting that since there's no revision history I can get to on it, and no per-line update notes.
If you want to confirm for me what you personally updated, I can go use that.

Author:  Kalin [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Brown actions:
Image
It looks like the multiple penalty values aren't accurate.

Author:  Kippei [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

nehp wrote:
I gave up on trusting that since there's no revision history I can get to on it, and no per-line update notes.
If you want to confirm for me what you personally updated, I can go use that.


Unless someone actively sabotaged it, the ones with values filled in for "Penalty For Multiple" should be accurate. Anyway, all the general stuff and Green stuff still looks accurate from when I updated it this morning.

Author:  Turbo Lance [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

nehp wrote:
Kippei wrote:
Nehp, check the Faction Powers spreadsheet. I know Green and Brown updated it, and it looks like Purple has too.


I gave up on trusting that since there's no revision history I can get to on it, and no per-line update notes.
If you want to confirm for me what you personally updated, I can go use that.

Brown updated with new power values

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

Kalin wrote:
Since the legendary pirates are officially allies, wouldn't it make sense to stop getting non-Fleet Legendaries?


You assume the pirates all work together all the time :remywicked:

The spawn chance of the HF legendaries will go up, which will basically equate this.

Quote:
I like the term "Diminished Return", and agree that it should count the effects at the target, not the source.


It does...doesn't it?

Quote:
What about a "Transport All" action, costing 10%? I assume that's what we want to do 99% of the time.
[/quote]

Hmm...right now we don't do proportional transfers, but I can see what I can do.

Author:  Chesterfield Taft [ Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hidden War Changes Discussion

nehp wrote:
Path of Lights - Now will take a percentage of the influence gained on target skyland, and distribute that evenly to all neighboring skylands (so we take X% of the base influence, and divide that between the neighbors)


Path does not affect other influence gathering. It's basically an influence bomb that also hits neighbors when used.

Quote:
Quote:
Armed Blockade - Reduces influence bleed from neighboring skylands by 30%. Has a duration and a penalty for multiple.

The initial info said it could reduce influence bleed *out* as well, which was what made this so appealing. Has that been removed? If so, we'll have to pay very close attention to the cost on this one.


I should have said to/from in regards to bleed. It should reduce it both ways.

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