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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:30 pm 
Tally Teller

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Posts: 388
Faction: Azure League

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Sorry about that Taricha, Talon, Mad. Call me claustrophobic, but I just couldn't countenance that chaotic, cluttered concretion of names and numbers anymore. So I opened it out, added room to breathe, and I'm much happier now. But I appreciate your loss of utility, so I'll do you a compromise. At some point, when I get around to it, I'll add another tab with a combined view much like the old.

Calvin wrote:
Blue Vast wrote:
It's 40 days old.
That is, the site began tracking this data 40 days ago (now 41, technically).

Go to work on your numeracy boys; it's clearly 47.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:59 am 
Export Counsel

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:52 am
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Quote:
At some point, when I get around to it, I'll add another tab with a combined view much like the old.


You are very, very awesome!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:13 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:10 am
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Merci, Katie!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:51 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:34 pm
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Very nice work. Can you add the faction color flag to http://skyrates.jusque.net/island_leaders

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:01 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:44 pm
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Location: Not here, that's for sure.
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Oh, how I miss influence running so badly... These tools rock!

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 Post subject: A Theory on Influence Running
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:21 pm 
Developer

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(I'm posting this 'Theory on Influence Running' here because the 'Skyrates Influence Toys' by Kathryn at http://skyrates.jusque.net/ are to thank.)

Out of some 12000 pilots, I was the 22nd highest influence runner in the game yesterday (29 Aug 00:00 UTC to 30 Aug 00:00 UTC ) with 89,625i earned.

How can that be? I'm pretty active on the Forums, but I'm definitely no hard-core player. I log in once-a-day, pick up missions, do my 3 patrols, queue up about 24 hours worth of flights and log out.

What changed with the past few days? Well, I started running missions on non-Green skylands.

When running influence on Green skylands, I feel pretty fortunate to fly away carrying missions worth a total of 5000 influence-points. However, now that I've run a few missions from non-Green skylands, I can expect to find easily 10 times that number.

Tortuga is currently Red. In my experience, in order to keep the skyland, Red will have to work (at least) twice as hard as another faction would have to work to take it. For example, every mission a Red skyrate completes bumps Red forward 1 'notch'. Every mission a Blue skyrate completes bumps Blue forward 5 'notches'. (Of course the numbers are totally arbitrary, I'm trying to communicate a theory here.) All other things being equal, Blue now has a 5-to-1 lead over Red.

It seems that the mission distribution/selection system favors offensive versus defensive influence running. If this is truly the case, and not just a figment of the RNG, suddenly 'losing a skyland' isn't such a bad thing. In fact, it may be preferable in the short term because the losing Faction has the opportunity to propel itself far ahead of the currently leading Faction. (Unless you're into the RP scene where there are riots in the streets or other such silliness.)

For more "proof" of my theory, see the 'Butchers That Veal' graph in Kathryn's Basement at http://skyrates.jusque.net/basement . Green didn't gain any additional hard-core influence runners after the 27th. In fact, many of our hard-core influence runners have opted to stay out of Blue's territory entirely. Yet, there's been a pretty significant jump in the total amount of influence gained for the Green Faction since Wednesday.


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 Post subject: Re: A Theory on Influence Running
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:53 pm 
Legend

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:53 pm
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Location: In your skies, shooting your pirates
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Calvin wrote:
(I'm posting this 'Theory on Influence Running' here because the 'Skyrates Influence Toys' by Kathryn at http://skyrates.jusque.net/ are to thank.)

...

When running influence on Green skylands, I feel pretty fortunate to fly away carrying missions worth a total of 5000 influence-points. However, now that I've run a few missions from non-Green skylands, I can expect to find easily 10 times that number.


It's called "negative feedback", Calvin, and it's designed to make holding skylands difficult.

So, in this case, a good offense really IS the best defense.

Calvin wrote:
It seems that the mission distribution/selection system favors offensive versus defensive influence running. If this is truly the case, and not just a figment of the RNG, suddenly 'losing a skyland' isn't such a bad thing. In fact, it may be preferable in the short term because the losing Faction has the opportunity to propel itself far ahead of the currently leading Faction. (Unless you're into the RP scene where there are riots in the streets or other such silliness.)

For more "proof" of my theory, see the 'Butchers That Veal' graph in Kathryn's Basement at http://skyrates.jusque.net/basement . Green didn't gain any additional hard-core influence runners after the 27th. In fact, many of our hard-core influence runners have opted to stay out of Blue's territory entirely. Yet, there's been a pretty significant jump in the total amount of influence gained for the Green Faction since Wednesday.


I've been posting about this for a couple of months now. As you can see, I'm not a big fan of it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:54 pm 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

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Oh Lord, no Calvin! You'll summon Beav!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:07 pm 
Legend

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 628
Location: In your skies, shooting your pirates
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Zabrak! wrote:
Oh Lord, no Calvin! You'll summon Beav!


I'm a cheap summon.

I'll continue responding to Calvin here because my computer was about to shut down on me:

Calvin wrote:
It seems that the mission distribution/selection system favors offensive versus defensive influence running. If this is truly the case, and not just a figment of the RNG, suddenly 'losing a skyland' isn't such a bad thing. In fact, it may be preferable in the short term because the losing Faction has the opportunity to propel itself far ahead of the currently leading Faction. (Unless you're into the RP scene where there are riots in the streets or other such silliness.)


It may be preferable in the long term, as well, if one's faction is willing to forego keeping their flags flying no matter their numbers.

I have to ask, was this brought into light when the evil "Blue imperialists" were "testing" Emerald Empire defenses?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:50 pm 
Developer

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Blue Vast wrote:
I have to ask, was this brought into light when the evil "Blue imperialists" were "testing" Emerald Empire defenses?
Ha ha. Nope. It was when the bullheaded Greens started blundering past the Line. :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:18 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:16 am
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Makes me thinking...

Does it make sense for a foreigner to have an easier time becoming a governor at a skyland than an already well established politician?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:14 am 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
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Location: Cynoscephalae
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Well, here in America, unlike you foreigner countries, we have a tendency to elect executives and legislatures from different political parties, at both the national and state levels. On top of that, we put some cachet in the notion that the executive be an "outsider" to the ways of the capital.

Which is not to say this has to be reflected in the game, just that it's not unrealistic that this outcome happens. My stance is that negative feedback is simply one of the contours of the game that gives it a strategic balance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:28 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:24 pm
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Wow. I thought this information was common knowledge at this point.

I wrote there:
Alessan wrote:
The tactical consequences are left as an easy exercise for the reader.

I'll do some of your homework for you, though. For someone hitting a skyland who doesn't belong to the controlling faction, I'd estimate it takes around 25% fewer visits to put up the same amount of inf as someone who belongs to the controlling faction.

If your faction is far behind on a number of skylands, it's good tactics to not attempt to build up leads at one skyland at a time, but rather you should push the gap on all of them down close to zero, then make a final push on all of them at once. This has the added benefit of making your faction appear meek and docile, even if that hasn't been the case for some time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:41 am 
Legend

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:53 pm
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Location: In your skies, shooting your pirates
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Zabrak! wrote:
Which is not to say this has to be reflected in the game, just that it's not unrealistic that this outcome happens. My stance is that negative feedback is simply one of the contours of the game that gives it a strategic balance.


Yeah, the great thing about it is you can put up the largest numbers in regards to personal influence while nabbing the most governorships and undermining another faction's lead on a skyland more efficiently than a person of that faction can make it back all at the same time.

That's balance you can believe in!

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Captain of Wynona.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:30 pm 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

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Blue Vast wrote:
Move sideways, you lousy bishop! This isn't fair! You think you're better than me, with your stupid hat?!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:13 pm 
Legend

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 628
Location: In your skies, shooting your pirates
Faction: Court of Violets

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Zabrak! wrote:
Blue Vast wrote:
Move sideways, you lousy bishop! This isn't fair! You think you're better than me, with your stupid hat?!


Apparently I sound an awful lot like Philip J. Fry. :shifty:

But even Fry would see the problem of the literal rubberband effect the negative feedback imposes in this adversarial, multiplayer game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:26 pm 
Developer

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Location: the steel city
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what's wrong with a rubber band?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:07 pm 
RP Canoneer

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:25 pm
Posts: 886
Location: Sand City, Monterey County, CA
Faction: Crimson Armada

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Bump...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:22 pm 
Min-Maxer

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:24 am
Posts: 923
Location: PA.ODI-RFC
Faction: Azure League

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Weee, old threads I haven't seen before...

Zab!, you can call it a contour of the influence game all you like, but your position is given far less credence than it would by a number of factors:

(Oh, and I apologise in advance for the extreme examples, but I just wanted to make it abundantly clear what it looks like.)

a) There are many many many problems with it, that lead to a lack of game balance and unfairness. That is, you sound like you're calling an infinite money bug a contour of the trading game.

b) Your stats show you've gotten a lot of use out of it. I'm sorry, but you currently sound like someone wanting a particular bug that they've figured out how to exploit to not be fixed. That is, you sound like one with $O(1e10) who wants an infinite money bug to not be fixed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:28 pm 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

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I'll respond when you make a new point, Slu.


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