Register / Log in

Server Costs Nov

Ends in 1 day 0%
It is currently Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:52 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: planes next round
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:25 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
here's what we're thinking so far: more tiers of less planes.

C = combat
T = trade
P = performance
Up = upgrade: kind of like the mantis but not as broken--lots of slots, (relatively) poor/balanced base stats, expensive
Stock = fixed/stock: the opposite of upgrade--very reasonable price, good all-rounders, little or no upgradeability.

Code:
0   -   CR-4P

1   C   Mastiff
1   T   Nomad
1   P   Thor

2   C   Valkyrie
2   T   KittyHawk
2   P   Marauder

3   C   Mkii
3   T   Halifax
3   P   Requin
3   S   Chapparal

4   C   Phantom
4   T   Cyclops
4   P   Loki
4   U   Excelsior

5   C   Seahawk
5   T   Barracuda
5   P   Mantis
5   U   Dauntless

6   C   Hades
6   T   BullFrog
6   P   Cetacea
6   S   Bolo

7   C   Vengeance
7   T   Leviathan
7   P   Havoc
7   S   Seafire

8   C   Bismarck
8   T   Lancaster
8   P   Nova
8   U   Mantis

9   C   Thunderbolt
9   T   KingFisher
9   P   Ingersoll
9   S   Spectre

undecided...
?   C   Avenger
?   T   "Gibraltar"
?   P   "Barashiki"
?   U/S "Hayao"  (needs to be modeled and is unlikely to be added very soon)


We are expecting to put the planes from the winners of the legacy operation into the game, but haven't decided where/how yet. I think it's unlikely we'll simply put them on the end of the progression, because the designs don't "feel" like high-tier planes (except for the super-zep)

detailed stats are not being shown here for a couple reasons: (1) they don't exist yet (2) we hope that the system will change; we want to get all the D20-oriented stats onto a scale to 100 (or 1000) under the hood. (3) the team decided on the call the other day not to share those. I personally think we should share them right away, but as always I respect my teammates' wishes. We did agree to have a scheduled rebalancing discussion/event for approximately 3-4 weeks into the new round, to correct the inevitable oversights.

This thread is to allow you guys a chance to critique the new direction for planes, and to discuss the progression. for example how long do we want it to take to advance all the way through to tier 9?

-PL-


Last edited by phil on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:39 am
Posts: 174
Location: Taking the plane down to the sea to do some fishing
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Is this in order? Cause I'm wondering why the Spectre is at the top...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 pm 
G-Squiggler

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 218
Location: Beyond the Hammerfall and Doomcrack
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
The avenger has mysteriously disappeared? Copyright issues with the Fairchild-Republic mayhaps?

_________________
"The dearest nation of all is one that will survive no longer than you and I, a common movement at the mercy of death and time: the ad hoc adventure."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:45 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
spectre is returning to its rightful position of glory. i think the avenger might have just fallen out of my copy/paste, if it's missing...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:53 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Near a beach
Faction: Flight School
Offline
phil wrote:
spectre is returning to its rightful position of glory.

Damn Skippy.

_________________
Colonel Fenriq
Senator, ex-Crimson Empire Praetorian, Governator, Quixotian.
Image
See this? This is my BOOMSTICK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:50 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
actually, no; it's missing from the spreadsheet entirely. it will probably remain high-tier combat, and some stuff shuffled down to make room for it.

also, i'd consider tier 10 because it's a round number, and we should have a couple more planes to add.

-PL-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 599
Faction: Flight School
Offline
I listed my initial thoughts for a long round (like this one) and a shorter round (~6 months). This would be for a casual to semi-active player who averages about 1 hr/day total.
Tier 0->2: Within two weeks (1 week)
Tier 2->4: Within a month (2 weeks)
Tier 4->6: Within two months (1 month)
Tier 6->7: Within three-four months (1.5 months)
Tier 7->8: Within six months (2.5 months)
Tier 8->9: Within eight months (3.5 months)
Tier 9->10: Within a year (5 months)
This is assuming that kits have been tossed, planes are more balanced as to the improvements gained by each tier. I would actually advocate something similar to what we have now, with the planes at the top granting smaller bonuses. The difference is with more tiers, players will spend a longer time in the "progress" phase. There is no easy solution, but the idea of upgrading to a new plane every few weeks, then every month or so is appealing, as it keeps everyone moving and interested in stuff.

I may edit or repost as new ideas/feedback emerges.

_________________
Image
Gen. Moros, Echo Squadron


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 am 
Field Marshal

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 463
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Phil,

You have the mantis listed twice.

Once as a Tier 5 performance craft, and once as a Tier 8 upgrade craft.

_________________
"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
-Sir Winston Churchill

Field Marshal of the Crimson Armada, and Imperial Senator

Governor of Echo

Dum Spiramus Tuebimur


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:19 am 
Explorer

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 342
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Seems the Mantis appears twice, Tier 5 perf and Tier 8 upgrade...

[edit: dangit. Markus beat me to it]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: planes next round
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:23 am 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:05 am
Posts: 3662
Location: Skybrary Archives
Offline
phil wrote:
undecided...
? C Avenger
? T "Gibraltar"
? P "Barashiki"
? U/S "Hayao" (needs to be modeled and is unlikely to be added very soon)
Hmm, couldn't these fit nicely into a "U" or "S" in other tiers? Or are you wanting to limit (most) tiers to 4 planes?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:53 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Wisconsin
Faction: Flight School
Offline
Part of me wonders if it's intentional, Markus. Kinda like the Valkyrie and the Mk. II?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:03 am 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
I like the concept, but as difficult as it is to evaluate absent stats, it's impossible without two additional pieces of information:

First, are the arcs not changing?

Second, will kits be limited to one per plane?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:20 am
Posts: 211
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Faction: Flight School
Offline
I like the greater # of tiers. I also support the addition of the stock plane class that needs little/no upgrading. Making more planes the upgrade type is also good. I like to have more variety, and by making more tiers, I think you can have more choices to make throughout the game.

I hope the advancement up the new tiers is also more time balanced. I know my experience isn't representative because I never downgraded to kit, but I spent WAY (unreasonably) more time at T5 than in all the others combined. My time spent in each tier was 12-25-64-91-343-2796 hours. I spent more than 5 times the hours in my dauntless than I did in all the other tiers combined, much less just T4. I was saving for a 3kitted T6, so I imagine it would have been in the 4000hr+ range before I got there. It seems like the first couple of tiers double the amount of time taken per tier, then all of a sudden there's a huge jump. Is that what you were aiming for? If so, what a waste of perfectly good planes at the lower tiers! I'd rather have more choices later on if this wil continue to be the case. 2-3 planes per tier earlier, 5-6 planes/tier later.

Also coming to mind is: how are the upgrades are going to affect the planes? If you have stock, upgrademonster, and T/P/C planes, how far in tier-comparative effectiveness will these upgrades allow planes to advance? Will a stock plane instantly fly like an unmodded T/P/C plane in the next tier, but a T/P/C will be modifiable such that it can perform like an unmodded T/P/C from 2 tiers up? What about the umonsters? Upgradable effectively 3-4 tiers compared to an unmodded T/P/C?

Lastly, with regards to the time taken to get all the way to the very end, fully upgraded last tier, It should be about the amout of time it is now. I've been pretty happy with that aspect. I didn't start from the beginning, but it took me from April, I believe, to make it from cr4p to 1Kit T6 (would have saved 3Kit, but I ran out of time). So 6-8 or so months total time to the very end would be great. Moros' time scale seems about right now that I look at it. Hooray for Moros, well said.

Well, that's my two cents. I've run out of steam! Thoughts?


Last edited by Raegune on Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:49 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:27 pm
Posts: 24
Faction: Flight School
Offline
First off, I like the concept of haveing more tiers.

Secondly, I'm sceptic to the amount of upgradeable planes at relatively low levels. A lot of slots won't do any good if you can't carry the weight around to fill them all.

Level 8 is the highest tier that has a upgrade plane, maybe this will change when level 10 is brought out?

The stock planes have no upgrade but are cheaper? I hope that is cheaper then an equivalant upgrade plane that is fully kitted out. Otherwise aren't you paying twice the money? Just a thought tho.

Does this also mean that the combat, performance and trade planes have no upgrade slots or are they just limited?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:58 am 
Combat Guru

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:28 pm
Posts: 1924
Faction: Azure League

Offline
Upgrade is back! :woodman:

Also, I'm split, I'd like to see the Avenger remain the top dog in combat, but sadly that means it will break my bank :sad:

_________________
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough
Image
Proud recipient of the Golden Waffle Award


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:53 pm 
G-Squiggler

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:13 pm
Posts: 218
Location: Beyond the Hammerfall and Doomcrack
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
I just noticed that the ceta is listed as a perf plane. :shock:

_________________
"The dearest nation of all is one that will survive no longer than you and I, a common movement at the mercy of death and time: the ad hoc adventure."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 391
Faction: Flight School
Offline
But.. but.. mah precious Mk-II.. its so low in the tiers..

Am I the only one that likes the idea of having a wide selection of top end planes? I want there to be a variety of valid plane options at levels where people will be flying for a while, just so you don't see the same 3 planes everywhere. Having just the listed three or four kinds for the first few tiers is fine, but I would still like to see something like the current hybrid classes near the top of the list. Or alternately, if the top few tiers are close enough in stats to be competitive with eachother, that would be a reasonable way to handle it. The point is to give people the ability to pick a plane they like for reasons other than needing it in order to be effective. A bow to our sense of individuality and asthetics. If we implement a change to the upgrade system where you can keep pouring more money into a low level plane to keep it competitive, that would probably be optimal.

(And either way, if you need more planes to fill out the list, there is always my "honorable mention" plane)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:14 pm 
Developer

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 am
Posts: 2232
Location: the steel city
Offline
I love that plane and lobbied for it hard then and will again.

-PL-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:16 pm 
Legend

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 628
Location: In your skies, shooting your pirates
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
Circle wrote:
Am I the only one that likes the idea of having a wide selection of top end planes? I want there to be a variety of valid plane options at levels where people will be flying for a while, just so you don't see the same 3 planes everywhere. Having just the listed three or four kinds for the first few tiers is fine, but I would still like to see something like the current hybrid classes near the top of the list. Or alternately, if the top few tiers are close enough in stats to be competitive with eachother, that would be a reasonable way to handle it. The point is to give people the ability to pick a plane they like for reasons other than needing it in order to be effective. A bow to our sense of individuality and asthetics. If we implement a change to the upgrade system where you can keep pouring more money into a low level plane to keep it competitive, that would probably be optimal.


I like what Circle has to say here. I've been flying in a mantis for months now, and I like the flight screen, but it's awful having to see the mantis bobbing up and down in the sky.

:sad:

_________________
~Blue Vast.
Captain of Wynona.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:36 am 
Legend

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:51 am
Posts: 1481
Location: Cynoscephalae
Faction: Court of Violets

Offline
Blue Vast wrote:
I've been flying in a mantis for months now, and I like the flight screen, but it's awful having to see the mantis bobbing up and down in the sky.

More to the point, it's awful seeing nothing but Mantises bobbing about the trade, fame, and inf boards.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group