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 Post subject: Goin' Rogue: Blockading and Blockade Running
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:56 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:27 am
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Thought I'd revive an oldie but goodie for the new millennium.

Basically the idea is based on the old passive PVP idea (fight a clone of a PC's plane with the AI at the stick), with some non-influence running endgame fun for combat players. Pick a skyland with your flag, queue up a blockade (like a hunt), fight incoming skyrates. Profit.

http://skyrates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=811&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=blockade&start=20

To make it less of a beating on newer players, you can only blockade similar tier planes. Maybe you should also lose influence at that skyland, when you blockade. (You could have real infamy that way). In order to stop a powerful enemy player from picking on your faction's traders, your influence runners would have to take the flag.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:25 am 

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I think this is an outstanding end-around on the complications of true PvP and wholly support it.

It would be even cooler if the anti-player's plane colors were inverted.

But why do newer players need less of a beating than established players? That's discrimination! Equal beatings for all!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:47 am 
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If you insist...
brings in H-bomb points to it. "this is your adversary, you shoot him he kills you, you don't shoot him he kills you."
ooc
whts is the effect of loosing to a blockade. you cannot pick up influence at the island?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:16 am 
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Probably similar to losing normal combats except they always go for mission cargo or something.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:27 am
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Burrito Loco wrote:
Probably similar to losing normal combats except they always go for mission cargo or something.


I'd say exactly like normal combats: it's primarily a trade blockade, so you lose trade cargo, plus any loss-sensitive mission cargo. If blockaders were doing it for money, I guess they'd rather have the bribes than the cargo.... unless they were blockading a place where high-end goods are being taken.

But the game has changed since we first talked about this idea. Perhaps something more influence related might be more of a draw for people to actually do it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:43 pm 
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This would encounter the inverse of the Bolo AR exploit. A 3K Bolo, its adherents will quickly tell you, can be a blast to combat in, but to be fair the arcs, limited maneuver, and diminishing returns of (its admittedly impressive) firepower make it pretty tricky. However, since the total combat stats are 46 (20 FP, 14 mv, 12 mm), the AR's algorithm thinks it's much, much more of a juggernaut than it really is.

If I read Pierce's proposal correctly, my TBolt's AI-controlled shadow would get the short end of this stick. I have five fewer FP and one fewer mm of armor, but my arcs are far superior to the Bolo's, and the AI has nowhere near my native talent. BL changes his shorts when he hears my size fives coming; my shadow would just make him hide under the bed.

Also, how would the blockade be broken, and what would be the implications of that? When Ellington goes to run Harris off of Tortuga again, I assume Ell would simply defeat the blockading Harris' shadow - but then what? Would Harris just wait around, licking his wounds, for a pre-determined period of time, until finally being allowed to throw in again? Actually, that's not much of a departure from the status quo, but still, how would this be implemented?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:20 pm 

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If the blockading player has to fight a clone of the incoming player, then maybe the incoming player should have to fight a clone of the blockading player at the same time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:37 pm 

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Zabrak! wrote:
This would encounter the inverse of the Bolo AR exploit. A 3K Bolo, its adherents will quickly tell you, can be a blast to combat in, but to be fair the arcs, limited maneuver, and diminishing returns of (its admittedly impressive) firepower make it pretty tricky. However, since the total combat stats are 46 (20 FP, 14 mv, 12 mm), the AR's algorithm thinks it's much, much more of a juggernaut than it really is.

If I read Pierce's proposal correctly, my TBolt's AI-controlled shadow would get the short end of this stick. I have five fewer FP and one fewer mm of armor, but my arcs are far superior to the Bolo's, and the AI has nowhere near my native talent. BL changes his shorts when he hears my size fives coming; my shadow would just make him hide under the bed.

I would hate to see you inconvenienced in any way, Z. Perhaps the best way to fix that problem is to fix the AR, or for the devs to put a thumb on the AR scale for all clones when they are engaging PCs.

Zabrak! wrote:
Also, how would the blockade be broken, and what would be the implications of that? When Ellington goes to run Harris off of Tortuga again, I assume Ell would simply defeat the blockading Harris' shadow - but then what? Would Harris just wait around, licking his wounds, for a pre-determined period of time, until finally being allowed to throw in again? Actually, that's not much of a departure from the status quo, but still, how would this be implemented?

I seem to remember a dev telling me that having a queue stop midway would be a real problem. So I see two options:

(1) After a blockade (a hunt, really) finished, the game would check to see if the PC blockader had lost any battles to clones. Then, like when patrols are exhausted at a skyland, the blockader would need to visit another skyland before the option to blockade returned (assuming the port is still friendly). Any queued blockades would automagically become hunts after the landing.

So what the blockade breaker has really done is slipped a much harder combat (assuming she is in a great plane, has maxed skills, and the autoresolver respects her) in the deck for the blockader to deal with.

(2) "Breaking" a blockade is just flavor text for seeking out and winning a combat with a blockading clone. There would be no lasting effects, except for the fact that the blockader might lose to your clone and then only have 1mm of armor until servicing.

(2a) It would also mean that any combats that spawned later to incoming players during the blockade, the blockader's clone would only have 1 armor. Which would be hilarious and I suppose would be a "broken" blockade.

For both options, the best way to break a blockade would be to take the skyland's flag, which would prevent any blockades by the former governing faction, and convert queued blockades to hunts.

Aquilus Sky wrote:
If the blockading player has to fight a clone of the incoming player, then maybe the incoming player should have to fight a clone of the blockading player at the same time.


That's the way I always saw it. And that points out a potential flaw in option 1: What happens if the blockading player beats the incoming player's shadow and the incoming player beats the blockading clone? I think this speaks to going with option 2 above. If option 1 is used, it should be made clear that the blocking player controls her own destiny. Only if she loses to your clone is the blockade broken.

At any rate, both of these responses point out that this is not meant to be a true PvP option, nor a true influenced-based blockade. It's just a way to sneak in quasi-PvP (BL's original idea) and tougher special combats while finally introducing some gameplay that affects traders and combat players that is affected by influence and flags.


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