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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:46 am 
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Since real PvP is incredibly hard to program, how about Blockading?
It would work something like this: in addition to the regular "hunt" (for pirates) option, there would be a "blockade" option. For reasons that will be obvious, this would only be available once you joined a faction (sorry N@!). When you select the Blockade option, you first set a circle (identical mechanism to the Hunt option). Then you are given an window that allows you to choose one or both of the opposing factions to target. (this part could be beefed up with all sorts of complexity if you want to have people be able to set preferences for targeting fast planes, or planes with lots of cargo, etc, but it would work in its bare bones state too).
From from then on it works just like a hunt (even effected by Perception), except maybe there is some link between the average level of players flying through the circle area and the combats you encounter. Every time you win a combat while blockading, you increase the danger, or better yet, the frequency (or both! - perhaps a trade/combat skill to give bonuses here? Perhaps the skill could also affect the amount of cargo stolen in the area) of combats encountered by players of the relevant faction who fly through your circle.
Now, there are some timing issues to work out, and it would likely end up being the case that the effect of your blockading comes a little later than the actual fighting you do, but its a thought. I think the cool thing about this is that it would add a new dimension to Faction race and allow meddling in other faction's plans. And everyone likes meddling!
Seems like a lot of the code (for the hunt circles) is already in place, so it might not be TOO hard to implement. What do people think?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:59 am 

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if we merge the passive PvP and blockading idea, you could have a group of people blockade an area, that would result in any intruders having to engage the entire group's set of (beefed up) planes at once.

I really like your idea Fex, it meshes very well with the factions. I'm not sure I'd need a detailed control panel on who to engage, though, just "make heat for [x]reds [ ]greens" would be fine for me :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:11 pm 
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I was so gonna post exactly what fex just said.

Also, I would really like real-time PvP would passive would be okay until the real ting could be worked out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:18 pm 

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it's been said before, but real time PvP is very, very hard. I personally expect to NEVER see it in skyrates (someone may take that as a challenge though...)

straight passive PvP seems boring because both players would win all the time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:40 pm 

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/stamp of approval


Blockades with the passive PvP idea I really like.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:41 pm 

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Perhaps you could do passive PvP as a rankings system. Who used the most ammo, took the most damage, took longer, etc.?

Although at that point in time, you could simply code up a pirate, have them both fight it and compare that way. So it's not quite PvP, but is another way to compete.

Perhaps we could work out some sort of gladiatorial matchup here.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:07 pm 

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idea: both players face the same plane and are ranked on their relative performance against that plane. perhaps multiple rounds to get a good average.

ironman competition: players sign up for a scheduled event, and face increasingly harder planes until only one player is left.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:40 pm 

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I'd vote for a system where we can choose whether or not to face someone in a PVP. For instance: "Edmund Fex has challenged you! Do you accept? Y/N?" [Sorry for stealing your name, Fex; first one that popped up in me head.]

This would prevent a lot of crap. You wanna get into the mind of a lower level guy just to dogfight him? Be our guest. But if someone's being picked on, the first thing they'll do is overflood the forums with their complaints.

As for the blockade: Damn, I wish I'd thought of it first.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:40 pm 

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I'll give my PvP idea again, knowing that the devs have enough on their hands and aren't working full-time on the game this semester, so there's very little chance that any of this will be implemented.

That said.

It's generally possible to tell which character planes are on your same flight route, either going backwards or forwards. One could click on another plane in the "map" screen, and elect to combat them if the encounter/overtake them (the center of their plane being the bearing.) If they do, then a red combat icon (as opposed to the usual yellow) would come up, and the "en guard"-ed plane could choose to fight, bribe (depending on the level of plane) , flee, or ignore it. Should the "accused" choose to fight, then the fight begins, and the combatant must then take it on (the new alarm bells should help with this.) If ignored, it will auto-resolve, and if bribed, the money will go to the combatant. If either side wins, then an appropriate amount of money will be awarded to the winner and the equivalent amount of cargo lost. If the combatant does not respond to the enguarded's acceptance, then the combatant will lose in time (a rather boring, easy fight), but that's what you get for PKing.

It won't happen, but what do y'all think?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:28 am 

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Navelgazer wrote:
It's generally possible to tell which character planes are on your same flight route, either going backwards or forwards. One could click on another plane in the "map" screen, and elect to combat them if the encounter/overtake them (the center of their plane being the bearing.) If they do, then a red combat icon (as opposed to the usual yellow) would come up, and the "en guard"-ed plane could choose to fight, bribe (depending on the level of plane) , flee, or ignore it. Should the "accused" choose to fight, then the fight begins, and the combatant must then take it on (the new alarm bells should help with this.) If ignored, it will auto-resolve, and if bribed, the money will go to the combatant. If either side wins, then an appropriate amount of money will be awarded to the winner and the equivalent amount of cargo lost. If the combatant does not respond to the enguarded's acceptance, then the combatant will lose in time (a rather boring, easy fight), but that's what you get for PKing.


There's only so much sky in the Skylands to fly. If someone who's a low level wants to avoid fights altogether, what are they to do? Never take off?

And, even if you want to go the route of 'bribing', it'd cost a ton more money to bribe off everyone you happen to pass on your route than it does to bribe the current pirates you've got out there, now. At least with them, you're still earning a profit and they're rare and few between, depending on the cargo in your hold.

The PVP needs to be like WoW, where you can only get into a PVP fight if you want to. If we make it so that it's just another combat routine, there's going to be no one in the skies but Thorne.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:33 am 

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Speak for yourself! I'd fight Thorne. . . oh, wait. We're both red.
Well, I would have. But I guess we'll just have to fight the rest of you. :)


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 Post subject: Blockading
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:38 am 

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Hah i'd love the idea, I'd blockade tort, with my aveneger, comeon' got 23 firepower waiting for you ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:46 pm 

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Sorry, I meant to mention that CR-4p's would, of course, be exempt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Better than that, you can only be attacked by your tier and lower.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:13 am 

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Burrito Loco wrote:
Better than that, you can only be attacked by your tier and lower.


Agreed. This is sort of the system I was aiming for. If you want to pick fights with the big guys, do it. But don't let the little guys get hassled.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:35 pm 

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I like the merged idea, and was going to write a big o'l proposal along the same lines this weekend.

But, instead of facing all the planes at once, they should be seperate battles, with the same chance of happening as a hunt. That way, we could have at least SOME bragging rights.

Here's how I see it working:

BLOCKADING:

You can only blockade a Skyland with your faction's flag!

You start the blockade exactly as Fex said. Then, as every plane comes into your circle on the way to the skyland you are blockading, there is a chance for battle, just like a hunt. But BLOCKADE could be it's own skill that could affect this percentage.

The screens are exactly the same, except one of the splash screen lets you know that you are figthing "a (model of plane) suspiciously like that flown by XXX". In order to even out levels, just like with pirates (based on relative planes, plane condition, skills, etc), there are other planes to even the score.

I think this could be done by reusing alot of extant code.

Bonus Idea: You can even bribe out of the combat, if you pick on someone too big for you. the money would go to the player whose plane ans skills were cloned, or just be lost to the NPC.


BLOCKADE RUNNING:

So, you are approaching an unfriendly Sklyand. Just like a test for pirates, the game tests to see if you run into any bloackades. You can have BLOCKADE RUNNING as a skill, which might reduce this risk.

The screen says "you see a (model of plane) that looks suspiciously like that of (blockader)". Same thing, you can bribe, and relative levels will be evened out by other planes.

BLOCKADE BUSTING

This would be like hunting, but your "blockade" skill would increase your chances of encountering the Blockader.

No, while the bragging rights would be less than optimal, there would be some. And the strategy value of the game would go through the roof. It would give some of us longer-time players a new goal to shoot for.

Thoughts?

Pierce N.V. Post, aka Captain Posner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:53 pm 

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I like the blockade/run skills, and how they balance each other.

if we had a plane name index the server could just give you the name and leave it up to you to figure out who's in the cockpit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:59 pm 

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Almost forgot:

- If you are shot down by a blockade, you lose the cargo, just like a pirate.

- If you shoot down a plane while you are blockading, you get the cargo until your hold is full. You might get fish, you might get unobtanium, but that's it.

Maybe if the devs really wanted to make blockading profitable, you could have an option to dump cargo in flight. Of course, everyone should have that ability, to stop the filthy vermin of the other factions from getting their paws on the good stuff.

- "Busting" a blockade should mean that the pilot can't go service and start a new one. Like patrol, they should lose the option until they land somewhere else and come back.

Captain Posner
aka Pierce N. V. Post


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Another cool blockade thing would be to allow levis and Bismarks to act as refuel stations so you can blockade another factions island. After it mentions the Bismarks being used to blockade in its desc. These blockade support ships would get cash/goods from the planes that use them to refuel.

Hell, maybe you should just make that a function of zeppelins. They can carry fuel, so you can service at a zeppelin if you can't make range. A levi could sit itself between tortuga and a starter area and people could leapfrog off of it to get there. The gas would, of course cost more, the guy in the leviathan needs him some profits too. This would not be an option w/ a 'Cuda, they need less help, not more.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:00 pm 

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That and I'm not sure the Barracuda could slow down enough to make a difference!


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